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2018 Draft thread - PICK THE FASTEST GUY AVAILABLE


NightTrainLane

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I was watching some of Royce Freeman (who I like a lot as a possible day 3 pick) and came away really impressed with Oregon's LT Tyrell Crosby. Havnt seen him meentioned here yet. Good hand usage and technique. Great movement to the second level and in the screen game, especially given his size. Not sure where he's projected thus far

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10 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

But that wasn't the question i asked and tried to give point counter point to.

It was which position is the bigger need. WLB and MLB?

Yes, we'd would love to upgrade across the board, but with how the draft works, the money we have to spend and other positions that also need attention with new schemes and coaches coming in, that isn't a probable option.

MLB is the bigger need no doubt. 

WLB isn’t worth a top 10 pick, you want a playmaker in the top 10. Chase and cover guys can/should be had later in the draft. Hawk and Rivers were WLBs taken in top 10 and never proved their status. I can’t think of any other WLBs being taken in the draft recently, probably has been others.

In a 4-3.we should focus on the DL and secondary before LB imo. Guenther didn’t have high draft picks in his LB corps from what I remember. Although let’s not get @NCOUGHMAN started on Rey Maualuga again :D

Whether Bowman is a good fit in a 4-3 might be the problem as you are required to be more sideline to sideline. No doubt though that the Lbs were better with him in the lineup.

 

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7 hours ago, StocktonSav said:

I was watching some of Royce Freeman (who I like a lot as a possible day 3 pick) and came away really impressed with Oregon's LT Tyrell Crosby. Havnt seen him meentioned here yet. Good hand usage and technique. Great movement to the second level and in the screen game, especially given his size. Not sure where he's projected thus far

I’ve brought him up a few times. You’re spot on in your analysis; especially when you cite his ability to move and square up against linebackers and safeties.

I do think he lacks some strength and he exclusively jump or short sets. The latter is not a huge deal; Tyron Smith does the same thing in pass sets.

Value-wise, he's in a no-man's land for the Raiders. I believe he'll go between top 15 and the beginning of the 2nd. If he's there in round 2 it's a no-brainer. He has a frumpy build and I'm not sure if he'l test well so I'm hoping he falls a bit.

One last thing: he's from Vegas.

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13 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

But that wasn't the question i asked and tried to give point counter point to.

It was which position is the bigger need. WLB and MLB?

Yes, we'd would love to upgrade across the board, but with how the draft works, the money we have to spend and other positions that also need attention with new schemes and coaches coming in, that isn't a probable option.

Considering the team will be in nickel the majority of the time, I don't think there's a big distinction in most NFL defenses. I'm with bringing back Bowman and looking at signing one of Hitchens or Bradham in FA. 

Base defense would look like: SAM: Irvin; MIKE: Bowman; WILL: Bradham/Hitchens

Nickel: SAM: Irvin; WILL: Bradham/Hitchens

Pass rush: Move Irvin on the line at end, put Edwards at 3T. SAM: Bowman; WILL: Bradham/Hitchens

 

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3 hours ago, Dessie said:

MLB is the bigger need no doubt. 

WLB isn’t worth a top 10 pick, you want a playmaker in the top 10. Chase and cover guys can/should be had later in the draft. Hawk and Rivers were WLBs taken in top 10 and never proved their status. I can’t think of any other WLBs being taken in the draft recently, probably has been others.

In a 4-3.we should focus on the DL and secondary before LB imo. Guenther didn’t have high draft picks in his LB corps from what I remember. Although let’s not get @NCOUGHMAN started on Rey Maualuga again :D

Whether Bowman is a good fit in a 4-3 might be the problem as you are required to be more sideline to sideline. No doubt though that the Lbs were better with him in the lineup.

 

That was my thinking as well. We all want Bowman back because of the stability he provided to our defense but I think if we move to a 4-3 he could be out od place a bit. Not saying he can't play their but their may be better fits especially with the team in the nickel alot as @Rich7sena was saying.

So I think finding a LB that can stay on the field and play multiple roles will be important.  One of the reasons I like Evans. I really see him as a new breed LB that can play all 3 positions. He will have a learing curve but I love the fact that he can stay on the field all 3 downs.

Now I also agree that DL and secondary are bigger needs if the scheme changes we think is gonna happen does happen. Another reason I like the trade down scenario.

If Payne, Fitzpatrick and Barkley are gone when the clock starts for us I think we should be looking to add more picks in the top 100. The DT and CB classes are deep in that range and it moves us into position to address both and possibly get another impact player at HB LB or WR as well.

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There are alot of guys that interest me this year as always but a few that I like or wanna get more info.

Top guy at the moment peaking my interest is Hercules Matafaa -  he is a bit of an enigma. At 6'2-6'3 250 he was playing all of the place. On the dline, with his hand on the ground alot of times but also standing on the edge or over the A gap. And producing. And not just holding his own but dominating. He had 22.5 tackles for a loss last year. Just huge #s. Now moving to the NFL it seems unlikely he will be able to stay in the exact role of DT haha. But if we do in fact move to the 4 down linemen and use 2 backers in most sets to apply pressure to the double A gaps, he could be the perfect player for that roll. I don't know what the future  holds for him but he has too many skills for a smart DC not to grab him and cause havoc.

https://withthefirstpick.com/2017/11/16/hercules-mataafa-washington-state-2018-nfl-draft-scouting-report/

Others in the front 7 that I will be watching are

Austin Bryant, DE, Clemson

Clelin Ferrell, DE, Clemson

Taven Bryan, DT, Florida

Harrison Phillips, DT, Stanford

Joe Ostman, DE, Central Michigan

Chad Thomas, DE, Miami (FL)

Darius Leonard, OLB, South Carolina State

and of course, my main man, Vita Vea.

Guys in the secondary that I like or have peaked my interest and I need to do more digging on are

Duke Dawson, CB, Florida

Isaiah Oliver, CB, Colorado

Justin Reid, FS, Stanford

DeShon Elliott, SS, Texas

Kyzir White, SS, West Virginia

M.J. Stewart, CB, North Carolina

Godwin Igwebuike, FS, Northwestern

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21 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said:

There are alot of guys that interest me this year as always but a few that I like or wanna get more info.

Top guy at the moment peaking my interest is Hercules Matafaa -  he is a bit of an enigma. at 6'2-6'3 250 he was playing in the middle of the Wash St defense, with his hand on the ground alot of times, and producing. And not just holding his own but dominating. He had 22.5 tackles for a loss last year. Just huge #s. Now moving to the NFL it seems unlikely he will be able to stay in this exact role. But if we do in fact move to the 4 down linemen and use 2 backers in most sets to apply pressure to the double A gaps, he could be the perfect player for that roll. I don't know what the future  holds for him but he has too many skills for a smart DC not to grab him and cause havoc.

https://withthefirstpick.com/2017/11/16/hercules-mataafa-washington-state-2018-nfl-draft-scouting-report/

Others in the front 7 that I will be watching are Austin Bryant, Taven Bryan, Harrison Phillips, Joe Ostman, Darius Leonard and of course, my main man, Vita Vea.

 

 

 

I loooove Hercules Mata'afa. I watched a lot of Washington State this year. Once because they were playing on Friday, and then several times after that just because I wanted to watch him more. If you couldn't find him before the play, you would because he was the one popping off the screen. Was always winning his matchup and making a play. As you noted, I wouldn't know where to put him - but he just feels like a guy that will make it work somewhere at the next level, maybe as an OLB in a 3-4. Either way - the guy is just a football playin' Jessie.

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On 1/9/2018 at 11:30 AM, holyghost said:

I am similarly bitter about Foster. Don't care about the issues or the injury risk. He was a clear top guy, top 10 without the combine crap and then the injury rumors. A moron could see his level of play. Getting him at 24 is exactly the type of value move late 1st round playoff teams have to exploit yearly. For all we know we could have had Conley in the 2nd. Not that I dislike Conley, it's just irritating. We take risks in the draft on players who have never done anything. But not risks on a guy like this?

People tend to overlook how bad we need a middle linebacker to lead a D. Bowman kinda showed us all that a bit. I know the modern NFL is all about faster smaller linebackers, but you still need a guy on the field who has a clue to set it all up. You can probably tell from my post it's still eating at me.

Burfict, Foster, Jack, we've done this a number of times now. I wouldn't complain if we drafted Smith, I just hope he's the right guy and don't know enough about him to be at all certain. Keep Bowman next to him for 2 years to show him how to run a defense and lead. Enough hitching the wagon in the middle to converted college pass rushers and 5th round prayers. 

 

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Yes, I am well aware of the Foster arrest. Pretty snarky to post the twitter without a comment, don't you think?

First thought when I saw it was "that settles that". McKenzie being right. Me being wrong.

Next thought was, it just a marijuana arrest. If he was in CA it would never have even happened. But even in legal states, it is against the wider league policy which makes him all the dummy he was purported to be. The most important Foster questions now are whether or not this is a blip or if it is a Josh Gordon type career problem.

It makes picking Conley more sensible in hindsight. And yet, Conley himself was a huge risk so how sensible was it? At this point I'd say someone like T.J. Watt is/was the better idea. Someone with none of the crap baggage at all in the early rounds. Which ironically has been McKenzie's mantra up until this year, so why did he deviate from that for Conley? 

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45 minutes ago, holyghost said:

Yes, I am well aware of the Foster arrest. Pretty snarky to post the twitter without a comment, don't you think?

First thought when I saw it was "that settles that". McKenzie being right. Me being wrong.

Next thought was, it just a marijuana arrest. If he was in CA it would never have even happened. But even in legal states, it is against the wider league policy which makes him all the dummy he was purported to be. The most important Foster questions now are whether or not this is a blip or if it is a Josh Gordon type career problem.

It makes picking Conley more sensible in hindsight. And yet, Conley himself was a huge risk so how sensible was it? At this point I'd say someone like T.J. Watt is/was the better idea. Someone with none of the crap baggage at all in the early rounds. Which ironically has been McKenzie's mantra up until this year, so why did he deviate from that for Conley

Presumably because he was extremely high on him as a prospect in a position of need and was entirely convinced he was innocent, which proved to be right. Prior to the accusations, Conley had no red flags in terms of his character (to my memory) and if Reggie was totally sure of his innocence then there would still be no red flags in his eyes, which wasn't the case with Foster as his red flags were reported and probably well known by all teams. I think there is a distinction between the 2 players situations and certainly their character traits, which is what Reggie really prioritises. 

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5 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

Considering the team will be in nickel the majority of the time, I don't think there's a big distinction in most NFL defenses. I'm with bringing back Bowman and looking at signing one of Hitchens or Bradham in FA. 

Base defense would look like: SAM: Irvin; MIKE: Bowman; WILL: Bradham/Hitchens

Nickel: SAM: Irvin; WILL: Bradham/Hitchens

Pass rush: Move Irvin on the line at end, put Edwards at 3T. SAM: Bowman; WILL: Bradham/Hitchens

 

No way Irvin would be an ILB in nickel. If he isn’t a pass rusher in nickel looks we will let him go. 

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5 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

Considering the team will be in nickel the majority of the time, I don't think there's a big distinction in most NFL defenses. I'm with bringing back Bowman and looking at signing one of Hitchens or Bradham in FA. 

Base defense would look like: SAM: Irvin; MIKE: Bowman; WILL: Bradham/Hitchens

Nickel: SAM: Irvin; WILL: Bradham/Hitchens

Pass rush: Move Irvin on the line at end, put Edwards at 3T. SAM: Bowman; WILL: Bradham/Hitchens

 

I actually see Corey James and Morrow in a battle for WLB in this scenario. Bowman would be just fine in the middle seeing that Gruden likes vet leaders there like in the mode of Greg Biekert, and Romonowski. Marquel Lee could backup MLB and learn from Bowman he did flash talent. 

SLB: Irvin/Cowser

MLB: Bowman/Lee

WLB: James/Morrow

I would concentrate on the DL first particularly the DT and NT if Maurice Hurst is there, maybe he should be the pick and sign Star Lotulelei.

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5 minutes ago, Dessie said:

No way Irvin would be an ILB in nickel. If he isn’t a pass rusher in nickel looks we will let him go. 

Not every nickel situation is an obvious passing situation. He’s not stout enough to be in a 3-point stance as a 4/5/6 tech against the run. He’s good against the run, but he’s in from space, not in close range.

Further, Irvin isn’t that good fo apass rusher. He’s a better run defender as a 3-4 OLB than pass rusher. I think he’ll be in serious consideration for either a pay cut or a straight up cut.

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24 minutes ago, reddevil said:

Presumably because he was extremely high on him as a prospect in a position of need and was entirely convinced he was innocent, which proved to be right. Prior to the accusations, Conley had no red flags in terms of his character (to my memory) and if Reggie was totally sure of his innocence then there would still be no red flags in his eyes, which wasn't the case with Foster as his red flags were reported and probably well known by all teams. I think there is a distinction between the 2 players situations and certainly their character traits, which is what Reggie really prioritises. 

Listen, I understand your argument completely and in some ways agree. But regardless of his convictions on Conley that you propose, no matter how certain McKenzie might have been, it's still a significant risk. All the due diligence in the world and conviction of belief does not change the fact that ultimate control of the outcome of the situation was entirely out of McKenzie's hands. The risk went beyond the filing of charges into the motivations and actions of numerous actors in that scenario. He could have been charged even if innocent, it happens all the time. Charges alone could have merited suspension at some point, possibly significant. A random racist in a position of power could have been inserted into those people deciding to press charges or not. The girl could have pressed ahead with a civil lawsuit, which could drag out for years and bring up even more old garbage. If it extended longer, it could have become a part of an unforseen MeToo movement. See what I saying? Taking a skeptic risk-oriented point of view, poor outcomes can be numerous even without a factual basis. Hence the meaning of the word risk and the persistence of risk even in the face of certainty.

 

Point being, it's still a big fat risk even if he was certain. And one has to wonder why go the risk route at all since it seems to go against McKenzie's prior philosophy?

Clearly, as much as I still like Foster as a player, I'm wrong about the pick. It's highly likely at this point it's not going to be the first and only issue. As much as we needed the player, plenty more than we needed Conley, we do not need that ongoing crap that comes with it. 

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9 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

Not every nickel situation is an obvious passing situation. He’s not stout enough to be in a 3-point stance as a 4/5/6 tech against the run. He’s good against the run, but he’s in from space, not in close range.

Further, Irvin isn’t that good fo apass rusher. He’s a better run defender as a 3-4 OLB than pass rusher. I think he’ll be in serious consideration for either a pay cut or a straight up cut.

As I said if he’s not pass rushing in nickel we will let him go, no chance he’s plays as an off the ball LB in nickel looks, that’s not his skill set. 

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