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jsthomp2007

Jimmy Johnson vs. Mike Shanahan

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I just saw that Jimmy Johnson made it to the HOF with two Super Bowl Championships.  Why wouldn't Mike Shanahan make it?  He has more Super Bowl appearance, and championship (1 with the the 49ers as the OC).  He also coached longer than Jimmy Johnson, and I would think with less talent.  Those Cowboy teams were stacked...f***ck,  I could have coached them to a play off which at least.  

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The Cowboys were stacked because Jimmy built that roster. He’s certainly deserving.
 

Mike will get in, I assume he’s not been considered because of how often he’s flirted with coming back in some capacity. The second he publicly announces he won’t come back, he’ll start making lists and inevitably get in. 

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I agree. Jimmy was unquestionably the better GM though. And his influence on the draft process is huge. 

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Not really much of a comparison. Jimmy Johnson took arguably the worst team in the NFL, traded Herschel Walker for draft picks and built a dynasty in three years.

Back to back SB wins in year 4 and 5. Pretty tough to argue against him. Not really sure who you could even compare him to.

 

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Jimmy built a team so damn good every Barry Switzer could win a SB with it. But he couldn’t do it again without a Vikings team willing to sell the farm for a RB. 
 

i think Shanahan was a better coach and leader. Their coaching trees aren’t even close (g. Kubiak, A. Shell, k. Shanahan, S. McVey, M. LeFleur, A. Lynn vs Tommy Tuberville, Dave Wandstadt, Dave Campo)

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The other part besides the GM part - Jimmy Johnson didn’t dilute his CV by bombing elsewhere as spectacularly as Shanny did in WAS (Mia with JJ was meh but nothing like WAS).   Shanny’s time in WAS certainly takes the shine off his career evaluation.   Makes it seem like he caught the tail end of Elway’s greatness and caught lightning in a bottle with Terrell Davis.  We all appreciate his genius but it’s not nearly as clean or multi-faceted as Jimmy Johnson, not even close. 

Edited by Broncofan

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Didn't Jimmy Johnson coach the Miami Dolphins after the Cowboys?  And Shanahan took guys like Ed McCaffrey, Maa Tanuvasa, Brian Habib, Bill Romonowski, and Ray Crocket relevant.  He took other teams castoffs and weaved them into a back to back championship team.  

Edited by jsthomp2007

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40 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

The other part besides the GM part - Jimmy Johnson didn’t dilute his CV by bombing elsewhere as spectacularly as Shanny did in WAS (Mia with JJ was meh but nothing like WAS).   Shanny’s time in WAS certainly takes the shine off his career evaluation.   Makes it seem like he caught the tail end of Elway’s greatness and caught lightning in a bottle with Terrell Davis.  We all appreciate his genius but it’s not nearly as clean or multi-faceted as Jimmy Johnson, not even close. 

Completely agree.  

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40 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Didn't Jimmy Johnson coach the Miami Dolphins after the Cowboys?  And Shanahan took guys like Ed McCaffrey, Maa Tanuvasa, Brian Habib, Bill Romonowski, and Ray Crocket relevant.  He took other teams castoffs and weaved them into a back to back championship team.  

JJ in MIA - 8-8, 9-7, 10-6, 9-7.   36-28, 2 playoff W's.

Shanny in WAS - 6-10, 5-11, 10-6, 3-13.  24-40, 0 playoff W's.

Not really even close.  

Edited by Broncofan

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43 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

The other part besides the GM part - Jimmy Johnson didn’t dilute his CV by bombing elsewhere as spectacularly as Shanny did in WAS (Mia with JJ was meh but nothing like WAS).   Shanny’s time in WAS certainly takes the shine off his career evaluation.   Makes it seem like he caught the tail end of Elway’s greatness and caught lightning in a bottle with Terrell Davis.  We all appreciate his genius but it’s not nearly as clean or multi-faceted as Jimmy Johnson, not even close. 

Or you could say that only two teams have made the playoffs in 20 years under dan Snyder. Both built by Shanahan (though one was coached by Gruden).

 

 Jimmy Johnson couldn’t even do much with a dolphins team with Dan Marino and Zach Thomas.

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3 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

Or you could say that only two teams have made the playoffs in 20 years under dan Snyder. Both built by Shanahan (though one was coached by Gruden).

 

 Jimmy Johnson couldn’t even do much with a dolphins team with Dan Marino and Zach Thomas.

You'll get no argument from me on who's ultimately at fault in WAS the last 20 years (LOL).  But from an outsider's perspective, Shanny's tenure in WAS isn't seen as a plus.     Rightly or wrongly, when you take on HC/GM combined responsibilities, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Almost all DEN fans can appreciate what Shanny brought to the table - but an outsider can't help and wonder if Elway/Davis weren't more responsible for the DEN run than Shanny was.   We all remember what he did to overhaul our O...but outsiders won't, especially with Davis making it as a HoF'er (rightfully so with TD, but the Q's get raised for Shanny).

Edited by Broncofan

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7 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

You'll get no argument from me on who's ultimately at fault in WAS the last 20 years (LOL).  But from an outsider's perspective, Shanny's tenure in WAS isn't seen as a plus.     Rightly or wrongly, when you take on HC/GM combined responsibilities, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I agree that on the surface it’s seen that way but that’s why WE dig deeper. Snyder made him pick RG3. Mike chose Cousins too. 
 

the fact is not many HOF coaches succeed without a HOF QB. John in years 13-16 was not the HOF’er he was earlier in his career but Shanahan designed an offense to make those the best years of his career. 
 
From teaching players, to designing a scheme, to running an organization of coaches and players I contend that mike did more with less and was able to lead and teach those around him to be successful as well. 
 
now Mike the GM was subpar, you won’t get any rebuttal about that from me. He definitely was NOT a HOF GM. But as a Head Coach? I’d only take Belichick over him in my 36 years on earth
Edited by broncos_fan _from _uk
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3 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

I agree that on the surface it’s seen that way but that’s why WE dig deeper. Snyder made him pick RG3. Mike chose Cousins too. 
 

the fact is not many HOF coaches succeed without a HOF QB. John in years 13-16 was not the HOF’er he was earlier in his career but Shanahan designed an offense to make those the best years of his career. 
 
From teaching players, to designing a scheme, to running an organization of coaches and players I contend that mike did more with less and was able to lead and teach those around him to be successful as well. 
 
now Mike the GM was subpar, you won’t get any rebuttal about that from me. He definitely was NOT a HOF GM. But as a Head Coach? I’d only take Belichick over him in my 36 years on earth

Yeah, I give FULL credit on Shanny for Cousins.   No argument on that part.

The thing is, because Shanny insisted on having full control for WAS, you can't just select him as a HC, and set aside the GM part.  It would be like evaluating Josh McDaniels for his HC tenure alone in DEN - his insistence on total team control has to factor in.  And Shanny the GM did a lot of bad in WAS.  

I have no doubt Shanny will get consideration eventually, and I will applaud if he gets in.  I just do get how it's a more complicated assessment, because of the GM aspects, and the WAS tenure.  It's just a lot easier to give it to Cowher & Johnson, the evaluation is a lot cleaner (and yes, the cynic in me recognizes that both being big TV personalities, makes it an easier call for the Hall, too).

Edited by Broncofan

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Plus, Shanahan seems like kind of an a$$hole, that doesn't help. And, he coached the Broncos.  Gotta get the Steelers and Cowboys in there first.  

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