Uncle Buck Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 I look at Cowher as being comparable to a guy like Mike McCarthy. If McCarthy had retired instead of getting another head coaching job, would anyone consider him a Hall of Famer caliber coach? I sure wouldn't, and I'm routinely one of the bigger Mike McCarthy advocates on this site. I'd say that Mike Tomlin is more Hall of Fame worthy than Bill Cowher. Anyway, I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who thought his induction was strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee & Contemplation Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) Hanging around as a broadcaster keeps him in the minds of the voters, and that is another contribution to the sport overall. Consider it a sort of lifetime achievement award. Edited January 13, 2020 by Coffee & Contemplation 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamblinMan99 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Incredible amount of Pittsburgh haters in this thread. Wow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 1 hour ago, RamblinMan99 said: Dumbest topic I've read in a while. You do realize that Cowher didn't have a quarterback to work with at all before Roethlisberger, right? He did really well with what he had. Coach of the Year after just his first season with Pittsburgh and went to the playoffs six straight years. Didn't have near the weapons on offense that Jimmy Johnson had either. TC is smoking something strong. Do you realize that part of the job of a head coach is finding a quarterback that fits his scheme? I know the automatic reply to that is going to be that it's the GM's job, but nobody can tell me that Jimmy Johnson didn't have a LOT of input in the incredible roster the Cowboys put together. That's one of the things that helped the Cowboys win two Super Bowls with Jimmy, and one of the justifiable reasons he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. To say that Cowher didn't have a quarterback is an excuse. The Hall of Fame is not for being pretty good and having a "legitimate excuse" for not being great. The Hall of Fame is for greatness. In my opinion, Bill Cowher was a good coach but not a great one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamblinMan99 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said: I'd say that Mike Tomlin is more Hall of Fame worthy than Bill Cowher. What??? Tomlin inherited Cowher's team! Have you ever watched a football game in your life?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 minute ago, RamblinMan99 said: What??? Tomlin inherited Cowher's team! Have you ever watched a football game in your life?? I've seen a few, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamblinMan99 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said: I've seen a few, yes. No you haven't, because you wouldn't have made such a terrible statement. And it was more of Troy Aikman than it was Jimmy Johnson. Aikman's one of the best postseason quarterbacks in NFL history. Aikman could've made the same playoff runs with Tom Landry or any other coach. Edited January 13, 2020 by RamblinMan99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamblinMan99 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Packerraymond said: There's no way Cowher should've gone in over Mike Holmgren. Holmgren coached 3 HOF QBs, won 3 NFC Championships, 1 Super Bowl as a coach, 2 as a coordinator/position coach and has a coaching tree that has won 3 Super Bowls as head coaches as well as Andy Reid who's highly accomplished in his own right. Cowher was more of a TV stunt to me. We're only talking about Bill Cowher and Mike Holmgren as head coaches. Quit trying to move the goal posts by using Holmgren's coordinator and executive experiences as an excuse. And comparing them from strictly that standpoint, Cowher had a far better winning percentage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamblinMan99 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, RuskieTitan said: Same reason Lynn Swann is in the HOF, or a running back with 3.9 career ypc. Sometimes who you played for is more important than how you played. And if you played for one of those "storied" franchises, doors will open that otherwise wouldn't have. Then why is Dan Fouts in the Hall of Fame? Your case is completely blown. Has nothing to do with team preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamblinMan99 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 58 minutes ago, PapaShogun said: That's his fault for not finding a capable starter at QB for a decade plus. Don't understand why he should get credit for not having solved a problem. We can't all speak from the perspective of Bill Walsh and how he just got lucky to have two consecutive Hall of Fame quarterbacks. Normally, it can literally take years for a franchise to find a QB that good. To strictly blame Bill Cowher for that is asinine. 1 hour ago, PapaShogun said: Cower was a great coach, but came up short so many times in the spotlight. The 1994 AFC Championship, the 1995 Super Bowl, 1997 AFC Championship, 2001 AFC Championship, and 2004 AFC Championship. Four championship home games, four losses. If you watched that game (which you clearly haven't), Neil O'Donnell threw the ball directly to Larry Brown twice. Larry Brown won Super Bowl MVP for two interceptions that literally anybody watching in the stands could have made. Bill Cowher dragged his 95 team to the Super Bowl, but couldn't save them from the disaster that was Neil O'Donnell. 1 hour ago, PapaShogun said: . Still, he shouldn't have leapfrogged Mike Holmgren. That's bull****. Cowher had a higher winning percentage and coached two fewer years than Holmgren. Holmgren's win percentage was really good with Green Bay (where he had Brett Favre), but subpar with Seattle (where he had Matt Hasselback) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, RamblinMan99 said: We can't all speak from the perspective of Bill Walsh and how he just got lucky to have two consecutive Hall of Fame quarterbacks. Normally, it can literally take years for a franchise to find a QB that good. To strictly blame Bill Cowher for that is asinine. If you watched that game (which you clearly haven't), Neil O'Donnell threw the ball directly to Larry Brown twice. Larry Brown won Super Bowl MVP for two interceptions that literally anybody watching in the stands could have made. Bill Cowher dragged his 95 team to the Super Bowl, but couldn't save them from the disaster that was Neil O'Donnell. Cowher had a higher winning percentage and coached two fewer years than Holmgren. Holmgren's win percentage was really good with Green Bay (where he had Brett Favre), but subpar with Seattle (where he had Matt Hasselback) Is it luck if it keeps happening? Walsh also won games when Montana was hurt with guys like Mike Moroski, Jeff Kemp, and Matt Cavanaugh. Once his system was in place after a year, the 49ers rolled offensively no matter who was the trigger man. Who cares if it takes years to find your guy. Gibbs won with three different quarterbacks, non HOF guys. You can play that game all day where you reward players and coaches for being victims of circumstance. "I didn't have this guy or that guy"/"I didn't have this coach". Then everyone would be in the HOF. I did watch Super Bowl 30. O'Donnell threw the ball to Larry Brown twice. That's not Cower's fault, but it's his fault O'Donnell was his starting quarterback. And that's one of the many other games that Cower's teams crumbled in. But let's single out the 1995 Super Bowl. Holmgren went to the Super Bowl three times, and won once. He has a lower winning percentage. So what. He went further in his coaching career than Cower did. Just like Gibbs who also had a lower win percentage. (But Cower coached longerz!!!) George Seifert has a much higher winning percentage and two rings. Was he a better coach than Cower? ("Oh but he had Montana/Young/Walsh's team!!!) Just stop bro. Edited January 13, 2020 by PapaShogun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, RamblinMan99 said: We're only talking about Bill Cowher and Mike Holmgren as head coaches. Quit trying to move the goal posts by using Holmgren's coordinator and executive experiences as an excuse. And comparing them from strictly that standpoint, Cowher had a far better winning percentage. No we're not, the Hall of Fame looks at your entire career and impact on the game itself. It doesn't ignore your beginnings nor your impact after you left. It's why Ron Wolf is in as he was the originator of the draft and develop franchise model and his executive tree is huge. You absolutely count what Holmgren did as a QB coach and offensive coordinator as well as the fact that his assistant coaches routinely went on to be great head coaches. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Just now, Packerraymond said: No we're not, the Hall of Fame looks at your entire career and impact on the game itself. It doesn't ignore your beginnings nor your impact after you left. It's why Ron Wolf is in as he was the originator of the draft and develop franchise model and his executive tree is huge. You absolutely count what Holmgren did as a QB coach and offensive coordinator as well as the fact that his assistant coaches routinely went on to be great head coaches. Yes. It's why Dungy made it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Bullet Club said: Hines Ward will definitely get in and it will be a joke. Fake news. He wont get in. He isnt a HOF WR. Cowher deserves to be in the HOF, the question should be why before Holmgren? Cowher was an excellent HC. With a better QB he possibly has a SB win in SB XXX too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamblinMan99 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 14 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: his assistant coaches routinely went on to be great head coaches. You can be a great teacher without believing in your own product. That happens all the time in the NFL. That was the case with Bill Belichick and Bill Parcells. You can sugarcoat the whole "A Football Life with Mike Holmgren" story all you want. Bill Cowher won more games. Nothing more to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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