How is Bill Cowher a HOF'er?

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

7 hours ago, Bassomatic said:

POP QUIZ: How many NFL coaches meet all of the following criteria but are still not in the Pro Football Hall of Fame?

1. At least five years since retirement
2. At least 15 seasons as a head coach
3. At least 149 career wins
4. At least a .623 career winning percentage
5. At least 10 playoff seasons as a head coach
6. At least 12 playoff wins
7. At least two Super Bowl or pre-1966 NFL/AFL Championship Game appearances
8. At least one Super Bowl or pre-1966 NFL/AFL championship

ANSWER: Zero.

Class dismissed. Do your homework before declaring that Bill Cowher doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame.

Now we’re cherry picking a specific set of stats and thinking that proves a point?

 

[7DnBrnc53]

20 hours ago, RuskieTitan said:

Same reason Lynn Swann is in the HOF, or a running back with 3.9 career ypc. Sometimes who you played for is more important than how you played. And if you played for one of those "storied" franchises, doors will open that otherwise wouldn't have.

Swann played in a much tougher era, and he made the 70's all-decade team. He earned his catches, unlike a certain WR in SF who wore #80 that caught slant patterns a lot of the time against zone coverage and accumulated a bunch of two-yard TD's.

Back to Cowher, though: He didn't have a great QB for most of his career. However, his success came because of a defense that **** Lebeau coached (Bill Arnsparger came up with the Zone Blitz in 1971, but Lebeau popularized it in the 90's). Also, the Steelers gave him a lot of slack. If he was somewhere else, he may not have made it past 1999 (they may have kept GM Donahoe instead).

Edited January 14, 2020 by 7DnBrnc53

[DingoLadd]

The only reason(s) he is in the HOF is because of Lebeau , a patient Steelers front office and the fact he's a steelers HC who won a SB he shouldn't have won.

[TitanLegend]

This revisionist history that winning multiple super bowls is some expected feat and if you don't do that you're just not good enough is outlandish.

And the idea that he gets criticized because "LeBeau is the reason for most of his success"(even though he had success without him) is about as ridiculous as it gets considering it's the coaches job to put the best staff around him possible. Why he'd be criticized for hiring and keeping **** LeBeau around is beyond me.

if your requirements to being considered a HoF coach are winning multiple super bowls and that kind of thing, that's fine. But that's not the standard for the pro football hall of fame. Cowher more than meets the expectations to be selected for it.

The sooner people realize how much of a factor luck often plays in to winning in the playoffs, the sooner they'll realize that judging off consistent regular season success is probably a more efficient way of grading coaches.

[Jotun_Fan]

I guess I don't have a good enough feel for what the cutoff is for HoF caliber coach.  I have no problem with Cowher being a HoF coach, I can understand peoples sentiments about other coaches who are more deserving.  I guess winning a championship is pretty crucial to getting in, looking now kind of surprised Reeves and Schottenheimer aren't in.

[pacman5252]

Being good + TV = HOF

[Hukos]

12 hours ago, TitanLegend said:

The sooner people realize how much of a factor luck often plays in to winning in the playoffs, the sooner they'll realize that judging off consistent regular season success is probably a more efficient way of grading coaches.

I agree that the playoffs have an insane amount of luck to them, but the head coach is also the person who controls every function of football operations. If anyone is in a position to minimize variance as much as they can, it's the HC. I don't blame the QB for not winning a lot of rings because there's a lot that's not in their control. But the same is not true for a head coach.

I think Cowher's a good coach. I don't think he's a legendary coach - and to me, the hall of fame is about the very best of the best. "Hall of very good" is an apt description for Cowher. He has some straight up humiliating playoff defeats that are 100% indefensible that would have gotten him fired in other organizations and disqualifies him from really ever being one of the greatest coaches of all time. He's still a very good coach and he's done a lot of good in the league.

I don't see the hall of fame where every "I guess he was good" person gets if they were in the NFL for a long time. Longevity means nothing to me with regards to the hall (I'm also aware that I don't have a vote and that the voters disagree with me and that's fine), I'm more interested about players/coaches being the absolute very best at their position, even if it's for a short period of time.

[childofpudding]

I think you can argue that other coaches should have gotten in before him, but he is absolutely a HOF coach. In his tenure from 92-06, the Steelers had the best winning percentage in the league. I think it's fair to criticize him for the team coming up small too often in big moments, but he won a SB and reached another. Definitely deserves to be in.

He jumped others because he coached the Steelers, had that memorable scowl and is a TV personality.

[BlaqOptic]

On 1/13/2020 at 3:38 PM, Uncle Buck said:

I just heard that Bill Cowher and Jimmy Johnson are both going to be inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.  In the case of Jimmy Johnson, I totally agree and say "it's about time!"  But Bill Cowher?  That one really surprised me.  My opinion of him has always been that he was a slightly better than average head coach who was fortunate enough to have been hired by an organization like the Steelers, who keep their coaches around a long time, even if they don't win it all in the first few years.

They said Cowher had a lot of 10-6 seasons, but look at the division the Steelers are in.  The Browns and Bengals are usually good for an automatic 3-4 wins every year right there. 

Someone please explain why I'm off base here, because I think there are FAR more deserving candidates for the HOF, such as Don Coryell, etc.

I can see someone saying Cowher doesn't deserve the Hall but this is a trash argument. You act like the Cardinals didn't exist in the NFC East when discussing Jimmy Johnson. You also act like the Browns of the 90s and the Ravens of the 2000s didn't exist. or The Oilers/Titans of the 90s early 2000s didn't exist.

[BlaqOptic]

On 1/13/2020 at 4:20 PM, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Not to mention Holmgren should've had the Superbowl win over Cowher to begin with. But we all know how that one ended...

His team didn't show up and blamed the refs?

[BlaqOptic]

On 1/14/2020 at 1:55 AM, PapaShogun said:

I'm saying it shouldn't be treated as a feather in the cap for why he didn't go further in his career.

How many HOF coaches lost 4 conference championships at home? Or missed the playoffs entirely three straight seasons?

I don't think Cower shouldn't be in. I'm saying he shouldn't have leapfrogged Holmgren.

I mean everyone seems to be loving Holmgren here while ignoring he did it. Everyone is in love with him for what he did with the Packers - while having a Hall of Fame QB who won MVP. They're also praising him for "turning around the Seahawks" when what really turned the Seahawks around was the realignment that sent them to the trash NFC West versus a competitive AFC West.

[BlaqOptic]

On 1/14/2020 at 2:54 AM, Chieferific said:

Not sure why the bolded makes him a better candidate.  Cowher has the same SB wins and a better Winning % (that matters) and 1 less Conference Championship in 2 less years of coaching.  Not that I think coaching HOF'rs should matter much on a resume but Cowher has coached 5 of them with more likely to come.  This isn't to say I don't think Holmgren is a candidate but I don't think it's as egregious as you make it out to be.  But I am biased.  

This. All that tells me is that Holmgren may have been a product of the people on his staff more than anything. 

[BlaqOptic]

And for the record, I don't know if I think Cowher is a Hall of Famer under the normal circumstances. He may be a Hall of Famer solely because this is the centennial class. That said, there are some really piss poor arguments here including "He didn't get a franchise QB." Like, do people not realize how terrible of an argument this is? As is Franchise QBs grow on trees. When Cowher finally got a chance to get one guess what? He got one...

[Bassomatic]

On 1/14/2020 at 10:10 AM, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Now we’re cherry picking a specific set of stats and thinking that proves a point?

 

OK then, I'll spell it out for you:

1. When he retired after 15 seasons in the NFL, he had the 14th-most wins of any head coach in NFL history, and even today, he still has the 20th-most wins of any head coach in NFL history despite being out of the league for more than a decade. In addition, he had two more wins than Mike Holmgren did after 15 seasons, and 11 more wins than Mike Shanahan did after 15 seasons. He also had 18 more wins after 12 seasons than Tom Flores did in his 12 seasons as a head coach in the league.

2. His career winning percentage is .623, which is the 12th-highest of the 43 NFL head coaches who have at least 100 career wins, including Mike Holmgren (.592), Mike Shanahan (.552) and Tom Flores (.527).

3. His teams qualified for the playoffs 10 times in 15 seasons, which is a higher rate of playoff appearances than Mike Shanahan (eight times in 20 seasons) and Tom Flores (five times in 12 seasons), and only a marginally lower rate than Mike Holmgren (12 times in 17 seasons).

4. His teams won eight division championships, and he was one of only six head coaches in NFL history at the time of his retirement to win at least that many. In addition, his eight division championships are more than Mike Shanahan (four) and Tom Flores (three) combined, and as many as Mike Holmgren -- who needed 16 seasons to win eight division championships instead of 15.

5. He has 12 playoff wins, which is more than Mike Shanahan (eight) and Tom Flores (eight), and one less than Mike Holmgren (13), though he was tied with Holmgren at the time of his retirement. In addition, his 12 playoff wins in 10 appearances is a higher rate of wins per playoff appearance than Holmgren (13 in 12) and Shanahan (eight in eight), though it is lower than Flores (eight in five) -- who won one whole playoff game outside of his two Super Bowl championship runs. And speaking of one whole playoff game, that's how many Mike Shanahan won outside of his two Super Bowl championship runs as well.

6. He has two conference championships, which is identical to Mike Shanahan and Tom Flores, but one fewer than Mike Holmgren -- who had better QBs to work with.

7. He has one Super Bowl championship -- like it or not -- which is as as many or more than seven other head coaches in the Hall of Fame.

Bottom line, if Bill Cowher doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame, then neither do Mike Holmgren, Mike Shanahan or Tom Flores.

[Bassomatic]

23 hours ago, DingoLadd said:

The only reason(s) he is in the HOF is because of Lebeau , a patient Steelers front office and the fact he's a steelers HC who won a SB he shouldn't have won.

Wouldn't have, couldn't have, shouldn't have...DID.