Bears hire Bill Lazor as OC

[JAF-N72EX]

@dll2000 At the same time though,  there were equally just as many examples of poor situational play-calling, time-management, poor communication, and route concepts that were questionable at best -- all of which have nothing to do with the players themselves. 

Again, it wasn't just the players. It wasn't just Nagy. It was everyone! IMO, anyhow.

But I digress because as I said before, I didn't want to turn this into another blame game thread.

[dll2000]

8 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

@dll2000 At the same time though,  there were equally just as many examples of poor situational play-calling, time-management, poor communication, and route concepts that were questionable at best -- all of which have nothing to do with the players themselves. 

Again, it wasn't just the players. It wasn't just Nagy. It was everyone! IMO, anyhow.

But I digress because as I said before, I didn't want to turn this into another blame game thread.

Yes, things can snowball and domino.  Something with lots of variables can have a lot of causes for this or that and football has a lot of variables.

Nagy certainly isn't absolved, neither are players or other coaches or GM or in smaller ways everyone else involved. 

Nothing in football is ever completely perfect or perfectly bad.

I think in order to improve you have to identify and fix the larger problems or get them better.  Maybe fix is a bad word.  Plug the biggest leaks?  Whatever metaphor.  I am bad with metaphors.

So what was Bears problem in 2019?  Everything?  Okay.  What were largest problems ranked?  

1) Offensive Execution - This was our biggest problem IMO.  We could not execute our base plays at way too high of a percentage.  There were missed reads (QB), missed reads (WRsTEs), wrong routes (WRsTEs), missed blocks OL/TEs mostly, wrong blocks (OL/TEs mostly).

Whose fault is that?  Why did it happen? 

It's a combination of things.  I proposed in an earlier post above a big factor was inefficient practices -  which is a type of poor teaching methods.  This leads inevitably to a lot of the missed assignments and reads that you see above.  Even not knowing all the assignments and reads of each play it is obvious Bears missed a ton in 2019.  

But you can't absolve players of knowledge responsibility  - especially NFL players - they are adults and are at least partially responsible for knowing what to do and how to do it.  Even when poorly coached or with poor practices.  

The larger player part of player responsibility or as a cause for lack of execution though is simply talent/ability.   Sometimes the guy across from you is just better - he is a bigger, stronger, faster, athlete.  But some of that is within control of player as well.  Whitehair, Leno an Daniels were all far better football players in 2018 than 2019.   That tells me that they did not prepare for this season like they did last season physically. 

Burton and Shaheen checked out of 2019 whether that was due more to injury or lack of talent it doesn't really matter.  They were worthless in 2019.  That leaves you deep into your roster or into other teams castoffs to play a critical position in this offense.  Also, guys who didn't get practice reps.   With O line AND TEs taking a major dip in performance from not great to start with that is near your entire frontline that is a huge problem.  That is really bad news.   

Which brings me to Nagy as sharing fault in talent part of execution problem.  It isn't Nagy's fault who he has available to him entirely.  But he can identify giant holes in team obvious from practice and demand help.   He also picks starting line ups.   There was NO time in 2019 practice where Long looked like a starting NFL football player.  There was no time in 2019 that Shaheen or Burton looked like starting caliber NFL football players.   He gets let slightly off the hook because he is hoping that when healthy they will look like starting NFL football players and in Burton's and Long's case they have demonstrated a past ability.    So the idea is to ease them back into health and let them play bad for a bit.

But there is an adage in sports that everyone in America has heard growing up - you practice like you play.  If you are crappy in practice odds are very high you will be crappy in a game.

Offense looked like garbage in practice and it looked like garbage in the games.

Which brings me to Pace.  Pace picks the players and he can make moves when he spots a problem.  He is at every practice.  I was at ONE and the line and TE problems were a huge glaring neon sign.  QB problem in team is harder to tell because he is getting moved off his spot every rep, but clean and in passing drills he looks good.    Neither O line or TE was addressed with alacrity that problem demonstrated in practice required.  He relied on magical coaching to fix it (which honestly I have seen before) but that wasn't happening because the coaches that were there weren't fixing anything.  His plan B was same as Nagy's I guess, guys are just hurt and will be better later.

I think play calling is way, way below Offensive Execution and here is why.   The snowball effect is happening.  Picture yourself as play caller instead of the Monday morning QB.  You cannot execute your base or core plays with any kind of success.  It is beyond frustrating.  Nothing is working.  Guys are blocking wrong guys.  Guys are getting beat.  QB is making bad reads or poor decisions or making poor throws.  Crowd is booing you.  You are down 8 - 10 points and keep getting 3 and outs.  What do you do?  You try to trick the defense or try to manufacture something.  Sometimes you are even drawing plays in dirt (or on an IPAD these days).   Now you may try that anyway, because honestly it is a good way to steal points sometimes.   But what choice do you have when nothing is working?

Did he do it too much?  Did he have bad timing?  Did he do it too early?  Yeah.  But you saw training camp and you saw Green Bay game and a lot of early games up to Washington.  Offense was dominated by defenses in every area.   It's a tough spot to be in as a play caller.

A lot easier and more fun to be cute and creative when you can execute base plays.  You can't rope a dope or throw hay makers without an effective jab.  When other boxer is just better you are often left with just random hay makers to try to win with a punchers chance.

All that being said I don't think the Bears are that far off from being much better offensively if they can fix the O line problems.  I don't think MT is a great QB, but I think he can be much, much better than we have seen thus far with some holes in the running game, more clean pockets and better practices.  

I think Whitehair and Daniels are far more talented than what they showed in 2019 and that is potentially good news.  Bad news is I don't know if Leno and Massie will be better and we need improved play at RG so that is 3 of 5 below average players.  Yikes.  That is why I am banging the table for a big FA OT.  

 

 

 

[AZBearsFan]

23 hours ago, G08 said:

Could you envision Pace double dipping at TE in round 2? Cole Kmet and Brycen Hopkins, for example.

ABSOLUTELY. Especially with Burton already being a question mark looking ahead to TC. And I’d be 100% for it. I’m looking at how Philly uses Ertz and Goedert (and to a lesser extent Burton in 2017) and how Baltimore uses Hurst and Andrews as a blueprint there. 

[G08]

3 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

ABSOLUTELY. Especially with Burton already being a question mark looking ahead to TC. And I’d be 100% for it. I’m looking at how Philly uses Ertz and Goedert (and to a lesser extent Burton in 2017) and how Baltimore uses Hurst and Andrews as a blueprint there. 

I'm wondering if he goes that route as well... my concern is that historically you don't get too much production out of a rookie TE in this scheme. Kelce, Ertz, Goedert, Burton etc all had little to no impact. Can we roll the dice like that or is Pace better off overspending in free agency and then drafting just one TE to groom and hedge against Burton?

******* football, even the off-season has me addicted.

[AZBearsFan]

Just now, G08 said:

I'm wondering if he goes that route as well... my concern is that historically you don't get too much production out of a rookie TE in this scheme. Kelce, Ertz, Goedert, Burton etc all had little to no impact. Can we roll the dice like that or is Pace better off overspending in free agency and then drafting just one TE to groom and hedge against Burton?

******* football, even the off-season has me addicted.

I think if we get a bonafide starter in FA like Henry/Hooper/Ebron then we can go just 1 TE in the draft because then he’s looking to be at best the 2nd guy in 2020 and, if Burton is healthy, 3rd guy. In that role you’re looking for supplemental contribution in 2020 anyway which a rookie can provide IMO. Talking Braunecker’s role when everyone was healthy. Even with Goedert this year his production spike being as significant as it was IMO was most significantly tied to every WR on their roster ending up on IR. 

[WindyCity]

That would be a heavy investment in TE. I could see a double dip, but I think it would be split between rounds.

This is such a deep OT draft. We could be staring at a long term starting LT in the 2nd round, which would be hard to pass on with how bad Leno was this season and how average he is on his best days.

[G08]

51 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

That would be a heavy investment in TE. I could see a double dip, but I think it would be split between rounds.

This is such a deep OT draft. We could be staring at a long term starting LT in the 2nd round, which would be hard to pass on with how bad Leno was this season and how average he is on his best days.

I'm of the opinion you can find quality OL anywhere in the draft (of course elite traits and technique will get drafted much higher) so long as they are open to coaching and have the work ethic to excel. It's going to be interesting to see how Pace goes through this... maybe he will augment positions where we have a lot of money tied up with cheaper draft picks? Would make sense at TE, CB, OLB...

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

Pace's MO calls for a double dip a TE.  The team was hamstrung when he didn't do more before the 2019 season and he's probably smarting from trusting Burton and Shaheen to change.  He always likes to have a team on paper before the draft, so I'd be stunned if he didn't get a FA TE.  Once the draft rolls around I think there will be a couple 2nd rd TE options that are attractive value so I expect him to grab one.  I think OL, TE, CB and EDGE are all on the table with the pair of 2nds, and maybe even QB, but if I had to bet right now I'd say TE is most likely. 

[AZBearsFan]

2 hours ago, WindyCity said:

That would be a heavy investment in TE. I could see a double dip, but I think it would be split between rounds.

This is such a deep OT draft. We could be staring at a long term starting LT in the 2nd round, which would be hard to pass on with how bad Leno was this season and how average he is on his best days.

Depends on the FA I guess. If you’re giving 5/50 to Henry then it’s gonna probably be lower in the draft but you go on a 4/28 with basically a 1 year guarantee to Ebron (basically pitting that he’s competing with Burton to still be here beyond 2020) instead then a high pick on a TE makes a lot of sense. 

Love me some Hunter Henry, but love to see Baby Moss in a Bears uni come fall too. If not Henry then Ebron/Moss sounds great to me, with Burton a wild card. Red zone options galore. 

[WindyCity]

1 hour ago, G08 said:

I'm of the opinion you can find quality OL anywhere in the draft (of course elite traits and technique will get drafted much higher) so long as they are open to coaching and have the work ethic to excel. It's going to be interesting to see how Pace goes through this... maybe he will augment positions where we have a lot of money tied up with cheaper draft picks? Would make sense at TE, CB, OLB...

Most starting LTs in the league are 1st or 2nd round picks. 

They are probably the most physically unique players in the NFL. They are why the term "planet theory" was created.

Edited January 17, 2020 by WindyCity

[topwop1]

1 minute ago, WindyCity said:

Most starting LTs in the league are 1st or 2nd round picks. 

They are probably the most physically unique players in the NFL. They are why the term "planet theory" was created.

Agreed for OT's.  I am of the opinion that you need great athletes at that position.  For OG's or C's, you are more likely to find serviceable players to fill those spots in the mid to late rounds.

I think Pace will take an OT in the second.  He just has to given the poor play by Leno and Massie in 2019 plus given their high salaries and no real depth behind them.

 

[abstract_thought]

Funny but Pace has drafted several interior OL in the 1st 3 rounds. He’s never drafted an OT before round 6.

IMO you need to solve the OT problem before worrying about the TE problem. There are ways to scheme around having weak TEs. You have to put 2 OT on the field. I know people will point to last season but those guys have not been quality starters for much of their time in Chicago.

[WindyCity]

11 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

Funny but Pace has drafted several interior OL in the 1st 3 rounds. He’s never drafted an OT before round 6.

IMO you need to solve the OT problem before worrying about the TE problem. There are ways to scheme around having weak TEs. You have to put 2 OT on the field. I know people will point to last season but those guys have not been quality starters for much of their time in Chicago.

It is a problem. We have mediocre QB play behind mediocre OTs.

[topwop1]

7 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

It is a problem. We have mediocre QB play behind mediocre OTs.

Just a hunch but if the OT and TE play was better, then maybe the QB play would be better than mediocre also?

[G08]

56 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Agreed for OT's.  I am of the opinion that you need great athletes at that position.  For OG's or C's, you are more likely to find serviceable players to fill those spots in the mid to late rounds.

I think Pace will take an OT in the second.  He just has to given the poor play by Leno and Massie in 2019 plus given their high salaries and no real depth behind them.

 

How does that thought process work, though? You're essentially drafting a swing tackle with one of your top two picks in this draft. Don't get me wrong, I think Leno was ******* awful last season but it also was a deviation from his "norm". Plus, both those dudes are owed a lot of $$$.