Sugashane Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: Where are those numbers from? They are great. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2019 There may be better resources but I'm cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 7 hours ago, Sugashane said: They were worse than bad. 29th in adjusted line yards, 30th in RB yards, 30th in YPC, 31st in power success, 8th worst in stuffed percentage, 31st in 2nd level yards, 30th in open field yards, and 28th in adjusted sack rate. Averaging out to roughly the 3rd worst in run and pass blocking. If they don't get better then Pace and Nagy need fired. Those numbers are pathetic and should never be duplicated in back to back years. Those should be the numbers when you lose 3 starters for 8+ games each, not when the corpse at RG gets IR'ed for lack of a pulse (so it actually improved) and three others play 16 while the last plays 10. Yes, they were absolutely "trash." They were 14th in Stuffed % and 20th in Adjusted Sack Rate. Things like RB yards, Open Field Yards, and even 2nd Level Yards are generally more reflective of RB play than of OL play. Montgomery was one of the worst ranked RBs by DVOA last season. Not saying the OL play wasn't bad, just trying to add some context to the numbers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, abstract_thought said: They were 14th in Stuffed % and 20th in Adjusted Sack Rate. Things like RB yards, Open Field Yards, and even 2nd Level Yards are generally more reflective of RB play than of OL play. Montgomery was one of the worst ranked RBs by DVOA last season. Not saying the OL play wasn't bad, just trying to add some context to the numbers. I see what you mean. There were 6 teams with 18% on stuffed percentage, they are all at the same level. So they were all tied for 8th worst. So they were 8th worst, tied with 5 others for that spot. Their ranks don't take into account ties or other statistics that are relevant to place in exact positions. OL play has a huge impact on RB yards, getting INTO the open field, and getting to the 2nd level. If you're constantly getting hit at 1 yard from the LOS (random number I threw in, not quoting a statistic) then obviously the OL has limited the RB's ability. These are literally an attempt to separate RB ability from RB ability. I stand corrected on the adjusted rate, but regardless of how you look at it when you're 20th in adjusted sack rate while being 13th in pass attempts that shows how poor they are. Looking at scheme/QB play this is compounded by how quick Chicago got rid of the ball (Trubisky's Time to Throw being 6th fastest per NextGenStats). As for DVOA that has more to do with the entire offense IIRC. Two players run for 4 yards but get different scores because one did it on 1st and 10 but the other did it on 3rd at 3. That kind of thing, or do I have that confused with something else? That is where the stuffed percent and Trubisky's poor play drug that down even more to me, Nagy's offense usually seemed to be in 3rd and 5+ so we targeted ARob a ridiculous amount on 3rd down, and Montgomery only ran for like 50 1st downs or so. Especially with Cohen not really being used as a RB much. To me the OL was the biggest culprit for the run game's inefficiency. Cohen was able to make some long runs after making a guy miss but this year they were so poor he really had to hesitate a lot to try to find holes. Just my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 On 1/17/2020 at 8:40 AM, topwop1 said: Despite allhis ups and downs and overall mediocre career to this point, I don't know how any one can be mad about what they are doing. If they are going with an all-out, Mitch first and foremost and only type plan, I will be pretty pissed, yeah. Why? On 1/17/2020 at 8:40 AM, topwop1 said: There's a good chance it doesn't work out, but hey at least they are trying. ^^This. 12 hours ago, Sugashane said: If they don't get better then Pace and Nagy need fired. Totally agree. We differ on the definition of "trash" though, I guess. I'd save that for a group that's like, historically bad or close to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 13 hours ago, Sugashane said: They were worse than bad. 29th in adjusted line yards, 30th in RB yards, 30th in YPC, 31st in power success, 8th worst in stuffed percentage, 31st in 2nd level yards, 30th in open field yards, and 28th in adjusted sack rate. Averaging out to roughly the 3rd worst in run and pass blocking. If they don't get better then Pace and Nagy need fired. Those numbers are pathetic and should never be duplicated in back to back years. Those should be the numbers when you lose 3 starters for 8+ games each, not when the corpse at RG gets IR'ed for lack of a pulse (so it actually improved) and three others play 16 while the last plays 10. Yes, they were absolutely "trash." Wow. Just wow. Thank you for putting this into context, I'm going to steal it lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 10 hours ago, Sugashane said: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2019 There may be better resources but I'm cheap. They are really good. Nothing wrong with financial discipline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 Whoever we sign or add to the QB room is going to need improved OL play. Montgomery had his own issues last season that were over shadowed by some of his great plays. He missed some holes and was doing way too much dancing early in the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 5 hours ago, Heinz D. said: Totally agree. We differ on the definition of "trash" though, I guess. I'd save that for a group that's like, historically bad or close to it. Fair enough. I consider bottom 5 to be trash. I guess I'm a bit of a harsh armchair GM. Lol. 4 hours ago, G08 said: Wow. Just wow. Thank you for putting this into context, I'm going to steal it lol No problem. Make sure to note the correction @abstract_thought had on Chicago's adjusted sack rate though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 2 hours ago, WindyCity said: Whoever we sign or add to the QB room is going to need improved OL play. Montgomery had his own issues last season that were over shadowed by some of his great plays. He missed some holes and was doing way too much dancing early in the season. Agreed. I think you have a serviceable group with Montgomery, Cohen, Patterson, and Nall. Is there a franchise bellcow back? I'm certainly not sold. But there is enough talent to move the chains and have mismatches made IMO. But the OL is going to limit the entire offense unless they take a big step forward. We don't have a Brady or Wilson to carry an offense that has few tools or a bad OL. We don't have a prime AP to run successfully vs 8 man fronts. So the OL has to be at least serviceable across the board to consistently produce at an acceptable level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 On 1/18/2020 at 9:06 AM, Sugashane said: I see what you mean. There were 6 teams with 18% on stuffed percentage, they are all at the same level. So they were all tied for 8th worst. So they were 8th worst, tied with 5 others for that spot. Their ranks don't take into account ties or other statistics that are relevant to place in exact positions. OL play has a huge impact on RB yards, getting INTO the open field, and getting to the 2nd level. If you're constantly getting hit at 1 yard from the LOS (random number I threw in, not quoting a statistic) then obviously the OL has limited the RB's ability. These are literally an attempt to separate RB ability from RB ability. I stand corrected on the adjusted rate, but regardless of how you look at it when you're 20th in adjusted sack rate while being 13th in pass attempts that shows how poor they are. Looking at scheme/QB play this is compounded by how quick Chicago got rid of the ball (Trubisky's Time to Throw being 6th fastest per NextGenStats). As for DVOA that has more to do with the entire offense IIRC. Two players run for 4 yards but get different scores because one did it on 1st and 10 but the other did it on 3rd at 3. That kind of thing, or do I have that confused with something else? That is where the stuffed percent and Trubisky's poor play drug that down even more to me, Nagy's offense usually seemed to be in 3rd and 5+ so we targeted ARob a ridiculous amount on 3rd down, and Montgomery only ran for like 50 1st downs or so. Especially with Cohen not really being used as a RB much. To me the OL was the biggest culprit for the run game's inefficiency. Cohen was able to make some long runs after making a guy miss but this year they were so poor he really had to hesitate a lot to try to find holes. Just my two cents. They were actually tied for the 8th best in Stuffed %. RB Yards is just the average YPC of all the backs. Typically it's compared with Adjusted Line Yards to get a better idea of how RBs and lines are performing in the run game. If ALY > RBY, then your RBs aren't getting what they could out of the blocking. Open Field Yards may be impacted by the OL play, they're far more heavily tied to RB performance. It's a metric that separates out the stuff RBs do in space from what happens in the box area by looking only at 10+ yards beyond the LOS. I tend to agree that these stats are not a panacea for evaluating OL play and believe there are a lot of contextual variables that need to be accounted for. Even Time to Throw is highly contextual - do you include screen plays which are essentially runs? Do you adjust for down/distance where teams that stay ahead of the chains may be sacked less often because they're not forced into predictable situations? Overall though these numbers give us some idea of the offensive mess the Bears have become. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Crazy take. I don't like Jameis. I don't want Jameis. He is stupid on field and off. But he would be an interesting player on Bears and I think an upgrade over MT. He crosses the goal line which Bears can't do. I get he is a turnover machine, but at some point you have to score touchdowns offensively if you want to win games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, dll2000 said: Crazy take. I don't like Jameis. I don't want Jameis. He is stupid on field and off. But he would be an interesting player on Bears and I think an upgrade over MT. He crosses the goal line which Bears can't do. I get he is a turnover machine, but at some point you have to score touchdowns offensively if you want to win games. From an excitement and comedy standpoint this checks a lot of boxes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Romen Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 21 hours ago, dll2000 said: Crazy take. I don't like Jameis. I don't want Jameis. He is stupid on field and off. But he would be an interesting player on Bears and I think an upgrade over MT. He crosses the goal line which Bears can't do. I get he is a turnover machine, but at some point you have to score touchdowns offensively if you want to win games. He's a better Rex Grossman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Rivers is in play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 minute ago, dll2000 said: Rivers is in play. Will he play for free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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