The NFL has an Offensive Line Problem

[Kip Smithers]

18 hours ago, spilltray said:

Just because there are a bunch of bad offenses with some really bad OLs, that doesn't mean there is a fundamental problem.

 

Technique can definitely be an issue but there are some teams who consistently draft people (at all positions) with poor technique and actual football skills, but great athletic measurable assuming they can teach them. Sometimes it works. Often it doesn't.  Most of the teams that had really bad OL week 1 DESERVE to have really bad OLs. They had bad OLs LAST year for the most part, or let key pieces go without really doing much to replace them. OL is the most unit based group on the field and finding something consistent and investing time is the only way to get and stay good.

This completely ignoring the context of the OL market. It was a horrible offseason if you wanted to address OL in FA and most notably the draft. 

I think OL has a part to play why offense overall in the league are so boring and we're seeing 5 yard passes all around. In a league where the rules are tailored and encouraging to pass down the field we are seeing guys just pass 3-5 yards At a time. 

[Hunter2_1]

7 hours ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

I think fans just find it easy to throw the offensive line under the bus and/or have unrealistic expectations for their offensive lines. If it really was a league wide epidemic, then wouldn't we see sacks on the rise, rush averages on the decline, and offenses stunted in general? In reality, since the mid 2000s, league wide scoring has been higher than it's ever been since the merger.

 

League wide sacks

• 2016- 1,118
• 2015- 1,187
• 2014- 1,212
• 2013- 1,295
• 2012- 1,169
• 2006- 1,164

 

League wide yards/rush

• 2016- 4.2
• 2015- 4.1
• 2014- 4.2
• 2013- 4.2
• 2012- 4.3
• 2006- 4.2

 

It's hard to measure offensive line performance, and, like corners, they're really only noticed when they screw up or are phenomenal (Dallas OL, Darrelle Revis), so it's very easy to think your team's OL is bad.

It is hard to measure, and It's probably the old trusted eye-test that's the best judge. It is noticeable how offences are becoming quick-passing units first and foremost. This will mitigate sack figures. I'd like to see QB pressure and hurry stats, I reckon they'd be notable. 

[Hunter2_1]

4 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

Solid stats showing that the OL is not declining in any way, shape or form. In fact the stats indicate a slight improvement over 6 years. Puts an end to that argument!!!

No, it really doesn't. Sacks aren't the end-all, be-all. QBs are simply getting it out quicker or using screens etc. Sack figures will be hidden, but actual grading of the OL shows regression. Also, just watch the games.

It's happened again this week. Russell Wilson was running for his life, The Bill's OL was getting packed inwards, Cam was crushed and had about 1.2 seconds all game. Even us Pats got to Brees a number of times, and we supposedly don't have a pass rush.

[Hunter2_1]

15 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

This completely ignoring the context of the OL market. It was a horrible offseason if you wanted to address OL in FA and most notably the draft. 

I think OL has a part to play why offense overall in the league are so boring and we're seeing 5 yard passes all around. In a league where the rules are tailored and encouraging to pass down the field we are seeing guys just pass 3-5 yards At a time. 

Exactly this. OCs have evolved and adjusted. There simply isn't the time for deep passing anymore (on the whole). 

[Kip Smithers]

38 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Exactly this. OCs have evolved and adjusted. There simply isn't the time for deep passing anymore (on the whole). 

And as a result the product has suffered on the whole.

[Hunter2_1]

Re: sack numbers

Seahawks OL protection: 

Ifedi: three hurries; Odhiambo: one sack, one hit, two hurries; Glowinski: one sack, one hit; Joeckel: one sack, two hurries; Britt: one hit.

QB Russell Wilson was officially sacked only three times, but you can't tell me the OL done it's job there. Wilson rarely enjoys a pocket. The standard, hospitable zone that a QB needs to operate in; he can't get one. 

Sack figures look average, but Wilson was on his skates. 

[Iamcanadian]

12 hours ago, mcmurtry86 said:

A lot of it is coaching. The fundamentals a lot of these guys have are just so bad. It could be partially due to the offensive coordinator churn in the NFL where teams keep changing systems and coaches, disrupting the development of their raw players.

This is a lot of it too. Not a lot of good pro-style pro-ready OL coming out of the college ranks. With the league (both pro and college) becoming so pass heavy and reliant on speed and athleticism, every big guy with good feet is being converted to a pass rusher.

It is far more likely to be the new CBA which severely limits training time. OLmen need technique to survive in the NFL and would be seriously affected by the lack of practice time. Being a NFL OLmen requires a serious learning curve from college ball and the reduction in training time would effect them the most.

Coaches can only do so much with the limited training time, so no doubt every position is feeling the effect of reduced practice time and I'd say the OL would be the most effected of all the positions.

So there could be some truth to the idea that OL play has declined somewhat, but it has nothing to do with the draft, nor the time teams spend on teaching the position or the coaching, it is simply the effect of the new CBA which limits practice time. It is very difficult to overcome that.

[howru8888]

On 9/17/2017 at 10:03 AM, warfelg said:

This is what I came in here to say.  They were going on about it in depth on NFLRadio the other day about how these guys coming in now are just athletes with very little technique or skills that are asked to change over.  They talked about how many college linemen are also in the 290-310 range to keep up and the NFL still wants these guys at the 310-330 range to hold up against the run.

Teams are going to start going for smaller school systems that still run the pro-set offenses at a regular tempo to field them.

Let's also not forget that this is a chicken and egg argument.  Because at the start of spreads, there were still good quality OL play out there, but of course DL was still big lugs too.  Then colleges started taking good sizable athletes, and playing them at DE and DT.  So now to keep up the offenses needed better athletes at the OT and OG positions.

Torry Holt had the best story too: He was at a college spring practice (didn't say which one) and they had a freshman who was a good athlete, good hands, good size that was slated to play OT.  Upon noticing his athleticism, the DL coach pulled him aside and was doing some DE drills with him.  Holt said he went back to the school in August, and low and behold, that kid was now a full time DE.  So he talked at length about the guys with potential to be decent OT's are being poached by defensive coaches and turned into ok DE's/DT's because they have this size and length to play against the run and pass.  Really sounded like Holt was placing some of the blame on college programs and how the coach looking good means more than teaching players the right thing.

This is pretty accurate but the reality is in this day and age as a college coach no longer can you make teaching and preparing for the NFL a priority. The priority has to be win and win right away or get fired.

[Hunter2_1]

Houston, NYG, Carolina, Seattle, Buffalo, NYJ, New Orleans, LAR, Indianapolis, Minnesota

All are not doing their job properly. Can you imagine if we were discussing this many Wide Receiver units suffering such ineptitude? Imagine if half the league linebacking corps were actively getting their DBs killed or something. 

[AkronsWitness]

On 9/17/2017 at 10:28 AM, johndeere1707 said:

I also feel like there hasn't been many quality lineman coming out in recent years. 

Here is a list of the offensive linemen taken in the top 10 of the draft in the past 5 years. Its a 30/70 hit/bust ratio. That 2013 class really flopped outside of Lane Johnson. It was supposed to be pretty special. Especially Joeckel as a prospect.

2013- Eric Fisher, Luke Joeckel, Lane Johnson, Chance Warmack

2014-  Greg Robinson, Jake Mathews

2015- Brandon Scherff, Ereck Flowers

2016- Ronnie Stanley, Jack Conklin

2017-  None

[TheVillain112]

9 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Here is a list of the offensive linemen taken in the top 10 of the draft in the past 5 years. Its a 30/70 hit/bust ratio. That 2013 class really flopped outside of Lane Johnson. It was supposed to be pretty special. Especially Joeckel as a prospect.

2013- Eric Fisher, Luke Joeckel, Lane Johnson, Chance Warmack

2014-  Greg Robinson, Jake Mathews

2015- Brandon Scherff, Ereck Flowers

2016- Ronnie Stanley, Jack Conklin

2017-  None

I thought Eric Fisher really settled in?  I mean I wouldn't consider him a bust...

[AkronsWitness]

25 minutes ago, TheVillain112 said:

I thought Eric Fisher really settled in?  I mean I wouldn't consider him a bust...

No idea. I remember when we played the Cheifs sometime in 2015 or 2016 the announcers were pointing out him getting ran over a bunch of times and saying how he was having struggles to the point where a position change was needed. Dont know how that ended up.

[Iamcanadian]

57 minutes ago, TheVillain112 said:

I thought Eric Fisher really settled in?  I mean I wouldn't consider him a bust...

He's not a bust at all. He is the starting LT for KC and last I looked, they were playing pretty well.

[JBURGE]

1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said:

Here is a list of the offensive linemen taken in the top 10 of the draft in the past 5 years. Its a 30/70 hit/bust ratio. That 2013 class really flopped outside of Lane Johnson. It was supposed to be pretty special. Especially Joeckel as a prospect.

2013- Eric Fisher, Luke Joeckel, Lane Johnson, Chance Warmack

2014-  Greg Robinson, Jake Matthews

2015- Brandon Scherff, Ereck Flowers

2016- Ronnie Stanley, Jack Conklin

2017-  None

All of the bolded are starters...4 of them are nearing or at pro bowl caliber, and Scherff has the potential to be there. So that's a 60% hit

[Uncle Buck]

One contributing factor to the degradation in offensive line play could be the reduction in contact drills allowed in practices these days.  It has to be pretty hard for an O-lineman to develop his craft when more often than not, all he has to do is stand up and hold his hands up as the offense practices each play.  It used to be that every practice included a lot of contact drills.  This allowed the O-line to develop their skills against actual defensive players trying to get by them.  Nowadays, the linemen aren't allowed to do what they need to do to get better.  Does anyone else think this could be a significant part of the problem?