The NFL has an Offensive Line Problem

[Packerraymond]

If you have a franchise QB, then you really only have money to keep together your OL and a few weapons for your QB or you can invest in a defense. Teams that have invested in the OL and playmakers usually have a young defense relying on a lot of young guys (GB, DAL, Pitt, ATL, TENN), then you have teams that heavily invest on defense at the expense of OL (MN, SEA, NYG, early 2010's Pittsburgh). Then you just have the teams hurt right now by poor drafting of the OL in general. The fact that the salary cap has forced young players into action sooner and college systems don't teach anything close to pro style blocking isn't helping. Some guys seem to just be able to step in and be successful off the bat (Packers OT's, Titans OT's, Jake Matthews, Nate Solder come to mind). Others need time to develop and lots of practice reps, of which they are given neither due to the CBA and the need to play right away.

 

[cddolphin]

Belichick on the current state of OL play:

[Soko]

Part of this has to do with the inability to hide a bad offensive line. Other units, you can sometimes hide or scheme into some success.

A bad DL? Great linebackers/pass rushers can help mitigate that. You can create stunts for them to get to the passer. You can even clog run lanes by accidentally just anchoring your position. 

Bad LB core? Being sandwiched between a good secondary and DL can do the trick (Giants have survived with this for years). 

Bad secondary? Hard to get around this one, but we've seen it. The 2011 Patriots had no one outside of McCourty, who was being moved around too much. A strong pass rush helps a lot.

Even an incompetent running back can run through open lanes (most of the time, I see you Trent Richardson). Receivers can be schemed open and their level of play can sometimes rise with great QB play. Having a bad QB is another tough one to hide, but even then we've seen it with teams with good receivers/strong rushing attacks/strong defenses. 

The offensive line is really the hardest to hide if they're truly bad, which is why they probably get chastised a ton.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 hours ago, cddolphin said:

Belichick on the current state of OL play:

I'm in no place to even pretend to know anything near Belicheck, but the majority of the problem I've seen isn't combination blocks, or recognition of blitzes, or things like that - it's just that OL just suck. They can't block the guy in front of them. They instantly get beat off of the ball, they don't move their feet, they don't block with their hands, they lean too far forward, etc.. Like when I watched the DET/NYG game, Erick Flowers and Greg Robinson weren't having trouble seeing blitzes coming in, they just literally couldn't block Ziggy Ansah and Olivier Vernon. There was on pass attempt where Flowers literally let Vernon go around him, then clubbed him in the back of the head to push him into the next blocker (the HB). What the heck kind of technique is that?!

Those are all things that can be corrected without pads, right? IMO there's simply a massive shortage of talent there. But you also have to consider that OL are already rare breeds of people. Finding 6'4+ guys who weigh close to 300 lbs is already a challenge. Then picking from that pool guys who are athletic enough, smart enough, and talented enough to play in the NFL? That's your problem (again, in my opinion). The current crop of those players just don't have the talent, overall, which is just sad and it's making the entire product look crappy.

[lancerman]

3 hours ago, Darth Pees said:

I'm in no place to even pretend to know anything near Belicheck, but the majority of the problem I've seen isn't combination blocks, or recognition of blitzes, or things like that - it's just that OL just suck. They can't block the guy in front of them. They instantly get beat off of the ball, they don't move their feet, they don't block with their hands, they lean too far forward, etc.. Like when I watched the DET/NYG game, Erick Flowers and Greg Robinson weren't having trouble seeing blitzes coming in, they just literally couldn't block Ziggy Ansah and Olivier Vernon. There was on pass attempt where Flowers literally let Vernon go around him, then clubbed him in the back of the head to push him into the next blocker (the HB). What the heck kind of technique is that?!

Those are all things that can be corrected without pads, right? IMO there's simply a massive shortage of talent there. But you also have to consider that OL are already rare breeds of people. Finding 6'4+ guys who weigh close to 300 lbs is already a challenge. Then picking from that pool guys who are athletic enough, smart enough, and talented enough to play in the NFL? That's your problem (again, in my opinion). The current crop of those players just don't have the talent, overall, which is just sad and it's making the entire product look crappy.

So basically all technique problems. Likely from what Belichick said of not practicing in pads 

[Louis Friend]

On 9/18/2017 at 7:13 PM, JBURGE25 said:

All of the bolded are starters...4 of them are nearing or at pro bowl caliber, and Scherff has the potential to be there. So that's a 60% hit

Greg Robinson is starting for the Lions. At least until Taylor Decker (1st rd pick for the Lions in 2017) comes back. 

[CatalystNX]

I definitely think this is a league-wide issue and all of the reasons that have been pointed out are, to some extent, accurate. I have honestly been wondering the last 2 weeks, with how the OL play has affected the overall NFL product (and thus, the ratings) if the league might consider changing the rules in the offseason to help the OL out.

They did it in 1978; prior to those rule changes, OL weren't allowed to use extended arms or open hands when blocking. The idea was to open up scoring and make for a more exciting product and it, largely, worked. Now, with the concussion issue and looming CBA negotiations, it seems unlikely that we're going to see a return to more padded practices. Also, it's difficult to see the trends in the college game changing too much either. That being the case, it really wouldn't surprise me if the league steps in and decides to tweak the rules somehow to boost scoring around the league.

[Hunter2_1]

On 19/09/2017 at 6:30 PM, Packerraymond said:

If you have a franchise QB, then you really only have money to keep together your OL and a few weapons for your QB or you can invest in a defense. Teams that have invested in the OL and playmakers usually have a young defense relying on a lot of young guys (GB, DAL, Pitt, ATL, TENN), then you have teams that heavily invest on defense at the expense of OL (MN, SEA, NYG, early 2010's Pittsburgh). Then you just have the teams hurt right now by poor drafting of the OL in general. The fact that the salary cap has forced young players into action sooner and college systems don't teach anything close to pro style blocking isn't helping. Some guys seem to just be able to step in and be successful off the bat (Packers OT's, Titans OT's, Jake Matthews, Nate Solder come to mind). Others need time to develop and lots of practice reps, of which they are given neither due to the CBA and the need to play right away.

 

Maybe the NFL needs better coaching. How would you class the Pats' situation on OL? We don't have any stars, in fact, it's a young OL especially the interior. But It's around about 15th-10th range. Solid, especially in PP. But the coach is a diamond. It's almost the same line that got Brady killed in Mile Hill (20 hits) but a change of coaching, and they look decent. 

[43M]

1 hour ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Maybe the NFL needs better coaching. How would you class the Pats' situation on OL? We don't have any stars, in fact, it's a young OL especially the interior. But It's around about 15th-10th range. Solid, especially in PP. But the coach is a diamond. It's almost the same line that got Brady killed in Mile Hill (20 hits) but a change of coaching, and they look decent. 

Agreed.     Before we got Munch, our line was always mediocre at best, even after we drafted some talented lineman.     Munch came in and brought it all together, turned Gilbert from meh to a very good RT, and got the most out of players like Ramon Foster, Villanueva and even some backups that have had to fill in.

Praise be to Munch.

[Ragnarok]

From what I've seen and read, a lot of the issue comes from the trend towards spread offenses in high school and college.  Offensive linemen don't have to learn proper technique due to the offenses they play in.  Physically, they get away with it at those levels and the schemes mask these issues, but the lack of proper teaching at the lower levels becomes a glaring problem when they reach the NFL.  

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

20 hours ago, lancerman said:

So basically all technique problems. Likely from what Belichick said of not practicing in pads 

Maybe I just put too much stock into the specific examples he was giving, but I don't generally see problems with IQ stuff, or combo blocks. I just see guys who can't block to save their life. But yeah, technique things certainly do play into it. OL are just not good, and yeah I think there is a great argument it stems from lack of padded contact to even bad coaching. But watching these clips makes me really appreciate what Russell Wilson does, and the fact he's still healthy:

 

And this is one guy from a sample size of like 5 straight plays in one game, and these plays aren't outliers.

[JBURGE]

19 hours ago, Louis Friend said:

On 9/18/2017 at 7:13 PM, JBURGE25 said:

All of the bolded are starters...4 of them are nearing or at pro bowl caliber, and Scherff has the potential to be there. So that's a 60% hit

Greg Robinson is starting for the Lions. At least until Taylor Decker (1st rd pick for the Lions in 2017) comes back. 

That may be true but Greg Robinson should not be a starting left tackle, as I think you would agree

[showtime]

I haven't really read through this entire thread, so apologizes if this has been brought up already.  What about a different set of fundamentals being taught to offensive linemen during their high school and college years?  The progression of the game into spread offenses and constant throwing may have something to do with it.  I noticed that every year around draft time people get enamored with offensive linemen who have great agility, can move well, block down the field, etc.  I somewhat feel like the game has progressed in it's style/tempo of play and the physicality of the game has decreased.  The 90's really weren't that long ago, but the game seems different to me now than when guys like Orlando Pace, Walter Jones and Jonathan Ogden came into the league.

[SpanosPayYourRent]

imo we don't pay attention to this, we think about QB,RB.WR that's it we don't even think about defensive units and it annoys me we never actually think about what makes a Football team so people can boo a lineman when he is drafted in the 2nd round heck sometimes even 1st round but it might actually work out for you in the running game wich equals long term sucess

[Kip Smithers]

On 20 September 2017 at 5:19 PM, cddolphin said:

Belichick on the current state of OL play:

I can buy this explanation. And it makes the Flowers pick 2 years ago, in hindsight, even more dumb founding. We obviously believed that we could fix those technique flaws he has but we were wrong.