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Steelers hinting about deal with Dupree??

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that or he's about to be announced to the pro bowl? but that was posted 2 hrs ago, figure a pro bowl announcement would of been made official already. 

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I'm on the fence about it.  It's gonna be over $16 Million AAS I bet.  Like many, I'm fearful his play was money motivated.  I can't explain the improvement any other way.  The physical traits have always been there.  Production has been sporadic.  I know some wanna give coaching the credit and maybe it is.  But I think his Contract year had more to do with it.  

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1 hour ago, August4th said:

that or he's about to be announced to the pro bowl? but that was posted 2 hrs ago, figure a pro bowl announcement would of been made official already. 

Could be a replacement.  

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19 minutes ago, Chieferific said:

But I think his Contract year had more to do with it.

So I tend to fall into the same camp of worry, but the only thing I can’t figure out is what may have caused it. Usually there is something tangible you can point to that provides clarity to a jump. A running back getting in better shape, a CB committing to the studying (Sherman talks about this a lot), a player actually giving effort because of the money or knowing his time in the league is coming to an end.

I don’t think Dupree falls in any of those categories. He has always been in good shape, I don’t think it’s about focus, and it’s definitely not a change in effort. 

The one tangible thing I think we can point to is health. This was the first off-season in which he was healthy. For a raw, project guy those are super valuable reps he finally took full advantage of. 

Do I have any real idea that that’s it and he is a good player now? No, I have no clue. But there’s gotta be something that changed to being about a 1 year wonder. I’m still weary of a long term deal, I’m pro franchise tag, but to me the evidence points more to an actual improvement rather than an artificial change. 

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2 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

So I tend to fall into the same camp of worry, but the only thing I can’t figure out is what may have caused it. Usually there is something tangible you can point to that provides clarity to a jump. A running back getting in better shape, a CB committing to the studying (Sherman talks about this a lot), a player actually giving effort because of the money or knowing his time in the league is coming to an end.

I don’t think Dupree falls in any of those categories. He has always been in good shape, I don’t think it’s about focus, and it’s definitely not a change in effort. 

The one tangible thing I think we can point to is health. This was the first off-season in which he was healthy. For a raw, project guy those are super valuable reps he finally took full advantage of. 

Do I have any real idea that that’s it and he is a good player now? No, I have no clue. But there’s gotta be something that changed to being about a 1 year wonder. I’m still weary of a long term deal, I’m pro franchise tag, but to me the evidence points more to an actual improvement rather than an artificial change. 

His ability to stay healthy last season is a good point and one I hadn't considered.  That could be the biggest reason for improvement.  I'm curious tho, why are you so confident his effort didn't/doesn't change?  I think his effort changed game to game and even play to play prior to last season.  He is a physical marvel. To be THAT athletically gifted at 270lbs is astonishing. He should be better and more consistent imho.  In the end, it's probably a combination of things (i.e better coaching/better health/better understanding of the game/contract year).  We can only hope out of all the reasons, a big payday wasn't the primary one.  

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15 minutes ago, Chieferific said:

I'm curious tho, why are you so confident his effort didn't/doesn't change?  I think his effort changed game to game and even play to play prior to last season. 

I honestly never thought effort was a problem. Never felt like I saw him dogging it, even though he played a high number of snaps. He never really gave up on plays, ran things down, continued to push. 

I thought he never seemed to play with good strength or technique. I’m still unsure in technique, but His play strength is the change that stood out to me this year - that’s why I point to health. 

I just think if you watch 2018 and 2019 tape mixed, effort wouldn’t be a change, but his POA strength would be. Had a healthy offseason to stay stronger and had a better coach to handle some details.  Again, I tend to be skeptical too, but these are the answers to the questions that make sense to me. 

Edited by Dcash4

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8 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

I honestly never thought effort was a problem. Never felt like I saw him dogging it, even though he played a high number of snaps. He never really gave up on plays, ran things down, continued to push. 

I thought he never seemed to play with good strength or technique. I’m still unsure in technique, but His play strength is the change that stood out to me this year - that’s why I point to health. 

I just think if you watch 2018 and 2019 tape mixed, effort wouldn’t be a change, but his POA strength would be. Had a healthy offseason to stay stronger and had a better coach to handle some details.  Again, I tend to be skeptical too, but these are the answers to the questions that make sense to me. 

His strength seems to have improved and that's helped but what I've always questioned (since college) is how fast and how slow he can come off the line during the same game.  Granted there are times he isn't supposed to come off quick and rush BUT the times he is, I see him as one of the last to come off knowing he has the ability to be the first.  So the only thing I can point to is conditioning and/or effort.  He did a much better job with it this year.  This could be due to staying healthy but it could also be Contract Year effort.  Unfortunately, the only way to find out is to pay him.  

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Sometimes it takes time to get something.  People tend to forget Shazier's 2.5 years bungled plays because he made the wrong decision.  We have a year of Bud playing on the right side which he seems more suited for.  The guy had no real training in college as he had 3 DCs in 3 seasons at Kentucky.  2.5 Seasons with the Steelers playing the left side and now 1.5 on the right.  Would I like to see better counters and sets on pass rushes?  Yes.  Would he be great as a 9-tech pass rusher?  Yes.  But he can cover and set the EDGE as well as anyone.

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It's the emergence of Watt and Hargraves.  Dupree saw the lowest double team rate of any starting edge player, and highest TE blocker rate of any starting edge player.

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Watts double team was only slightly higher than Dupree.

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Spending money on Dupree is a waste of cap and time.  Period.  Funny after 4+ years of bashing him how some of yall act like he's a can't lose player.  I know you can easily laugh at PFF, but some of their stuff is good, and what it shows is whoever pays Dupree is making a mistake, especially if you pay him as a top end pass rusher.  He benefitted majorly from Watt, Hargrave, Tuitt, and Heyward this year.  Many of his sacks took longer than 2.8 seconds (roughly about the line of it being categorized as coverage sacks).  He also saw a low amount of chip and help blocks (Watt saw most of that).  This is a passage that interested me the most:

Quote

“What should concern the Steelers when looking at the potential of re-signing Dupree, along with other potential suitors, is that his pressure rate for 2019 sits at only 10.1% that ranks 70th among edge rushers, tied with Cassius Marsh and John Simon. Dupree’s sack total with a pressure rate that low and a four-year track record of subpar production as a pass-rusher should bring reason for pause for NFL teams this offseason”.

For as "great" as he was this year, he just made more of his opportunities when he got pressure, and that to me is tied to the secondary (Dupree's stats BMF were a lot worse).  That's why I feel with the DL we have, Watt, and the secondary, it's more beneficial for the cap to have a player on a lesser rate with a low pressure percentage and a high sack rate (and there's actually more of that than initially realized when you look at it).

 

EDIT:

If we're going to spend $16mil on keeping Dupree, I rather use in on Shaquille Barrett, Shaq Lawson, Yannick Ngakoue, or Matt Judon.  Especially Ngakoue or Judon since they can play a little more with their hand in the ground.

Edited by warfelg

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14 hours ago, Chieferific said:

His ability to stay healthy last season is a good point and one I hadn't considered.  That could be the biggest reason for improvement.  I'm curious tho, why are you so confident his effort didn't/doesn't change?  I think his effort changed game to game and even play to play prior to last season.  He is a physical marvel. To be THAT athletically gifted at 270lbs is astonishing. He should be better and more consistent imho.  In the end, it's probably a combination of things (i.e better coaching/better health/better understanding of the game/contract year).  We can only hope out of all the reasons, a big payday wasn't the primary one.  

he actually improved in many ways, and I can't attribute that to health alone. Getting off the snap better, I can't see how health would make much of a difference there.  Going for the FF, why didn't he before, any of us would have:S.  Overall effort was better, but still disappeared at times because of lack of repertoire .  Maybe porter was responsible for the lack of improvement over the years, but that shouldn't effect the get off on snaps ;). Then consider TJ's play and the improvement of the D also helping out . I am suspicious of all tis and really wouldn't offer a mega deal.  I would max out at 3 years 30M and make it so it's trade or cut friendly if he goes back to his old ways. 

This looked  more like a contract year but with some improvement and Dupree deserves credit for  that anyways. It's not like he was overweight and lazy and this just happened out of luck - he put the effort in required .  I hope he continues improving if they keep him, that's all a fan can ask. We might not ever know why there was so much of a change. 

4 hours ago, warfelg said:

Spending money on Dupree is a waste of cap and time.  Period.  Funny after 4+ years of bashing him how some of yall act like he's a can't lose player.  I know you can easily laugh at PFF, but some of their stuff is good, and what it shows is whoever pays Dupree is making a mistake, especially if you pay him as a top end pass rusher.  He benefitted majorly from Watt, Hargrave, Tuitt, and Heyward this year.  Many of his sacks took longer than 2.8 seconds (roughly about the line of it being categorized as coverage sacks).  He also saw a low amount of chip and help blocks (Watt saw most of that).  This is a passage that interested me the most:

For as "great" as he was this year, he just made more of his opportunities when he got pressure, and that to me is tied to the secondary (Dupree's stats BMF were a lot worse).  That's why I feel with the DL we have, Watt, and the secondary, it's more beneficial for the cap to have a player on a lesser rate with a low pressure percentage and a high sack rate (and there's actually more of that than initially realized when you look at it).

 

EDIT:

If we're going to spend $16mil on keeping Dupree, I rather use in on Shaquille Barrett, Shaq Lawson, Yannick Ngakoue, or Matt Judon.  Especially Ngakoue or Judon since they can play a little more with their hand in the ground.

this does sum it up well, PFF has validity  as a guide, maybe not perfect but a good guide.  Was he "great" this year, or just much better than in previous season, yet still say - average considering all the other factors?

There appears to be many UFA available, but I am not sure the steelers will opt for a player that always had their hand in the dirt. If  steelers decide on a 4 man DL with hand in the dirt, then it gives them more options. I agree with the prospects you mentioned, but Barrett is staying in tampa most likely. Stealing Judos would also hurt the divisional foe, never a bad idea. Ngakoue  would be good but not standing up. 

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14 hours ago, Chieferific said:

Unfortunately, the only way to find out is to pay him.  

or let someone else pay him and observe from the sidelines.  Problem is, colbert is the GM until after the draft , you read that right - AFTER the draft. By then , he will have overpaid his RD1 pick in Dupree, so get used to it. I would rather go to a 4 man from and get a legit DE like Ngakoue, or Barrett if he's available. I am tired of the scheme here, would rather have the 49ers D style of play. 

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5 hours ago, warfelg said:

Spending money on Dupree is a waste of cap and time.  Period.  Funny after 4+ years of bashing him how some of yall act like he's a can't lose player.  I know you can easily laugh at PFF, but some of their stuff is good, and what it shows is whoever pays Dupree is making a mistake, especially if you pay him as a top end pass rusher.  He benefitted majorly from Watt, Hargrave, Tuitt, and Heyward this year.  Many of his sacks took longer than 2.8 seconds (roughly about the line of it being categorized as coverage sacks).  He also saw a low amount of chip and help blocks (Watt saw most of that).  This is a passage that interested me the most:

For as "great" as he was this year, he just made more of his opportunities when he got pressure, and that to me is tied to the secondary (Dupree's stats BMF were a lot worse).  That's why I feel with the DL we have, Watt, and the secondary, it's more beneficial for the cap to have a player on a lesser rate with a low pressure percentage and a high sack rate (and there's actually more of that than initially realized when you look at it).

 

EDIT:

If we're going to spend $16mil on keeping Dupree, I rather use in on Shaquille Barrett, Shaq Lawson, Yannick Ngakoue, or Matt Judon.  Especially Ngakoue or Judon since they can play a little more with their hand in the ground.

I agree to a point, as I was one of Dupree's biggest critics and I am not a fan of paying him huge money either.  However, I do think he is a solid complimentary OLB next to Watt and did play very well in 2019.   

Bottom line...wouldnt mind keeping him and would pay a little more than I would last year, but this suggestion of him getting $16m a year makes me ******* sick.  Im not even sold on him being worth $10m a year.

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