Draft General (News, Media Mocks, Big Boards, Rumors)

[paul-mac]

16 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

This sounds like Atlanta isn't getting any bites at 4

Well I guess with the Niners, it was pretty clear that Lawrence and Wilson are going 1 and 2 so they sold the farm knowing who is likely to be on the board and being comfortable with that. With trading up to 4, you need to be pretty damn confident that your guy (out of Fields, Lance and Jones) isn’t going to the Niners or you need to love more than one of them to make that move now.

 

I think there is a decent chance that Atlanta will trade back but I don’t see them actually doing a deal until draft day. 

[goldfishwars]

10 minutes ago, paul-mac said:

Well I guess with the Niners, it was pretty clear that Lawrence and Wilson are going 1 and 2 so they sold the farm knowing who is likely to be on the board and being comfortable with that. With trading up to 4, you need to be pretty damn confident that your guy (out of Fields, Lance and Jones) isn’t going to the Niners or you need to love more than one of them to make that move now.

 

I think there is a decent chance that Atlanta will trade back but I don’t see them actually doing a deal until draft day. 

Yeah, nobody is trading up until they know for sure what the 49ers do at 3

[Ray Reed]

My initial gut feeling was that the 9ers wanted Lance, but they theoretically may have been able to wait till draft night to trade up with the Falcons to get him if Fields was off the board before Atlanta IMO. The more I think about it the more I think this was done - and done this early - to secure Fields.

I still like Lance better with Shanahan though

Edited April 14, 2021 by Ray Reed

[goldfishwars]

1 hour ago, goldfishwars said:

Yeah, nobody is trading up until they know for sure what the 49ers do at 3

If you have 2 of the 3 QBs similarly graded you can make a calculation with Atlanta and feel comfortable you can get your man at a cheaper price.

[Forge]

2 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

Why would you pay that kind of price for the (maybe) 4th best QB in a class?  I wouldn't do it for Mac Jones or Trey Lance.

What about fields? He could be there

[THE DUKE]

3 minutes ago, Forge said:

What about fields? He could be there

Fields, maybe, but even then I wouldn't feel good about having to use future firsts on it too.

[Ray Reed]

2 hours ago, iknowcool said:

But the problem is you keep saying this as if it is the definitive truth, and anything else that doesn't align with your opinion is a "smokescreen."  What we're saying is no, you don't really know, and that the Panthers could very well still draft a QB at #8 if say, Fields, falls to them.

Like that is why your sig bet doesn't even make sense, because it isn't my point.  I'm not saying there isn't the possibility the Panthers decide to pass on a QB - it could very well happen.  I'm saying nobody really knows what decision they are going to make at #8, because they have been the one team that hasn't at any point really been connected to any of the QBs in this draft.  I've heard (from more than just the aforementioned Rodrigue) that we love Fields, but that's really it.  So nobody really knows.  But what all we do know is certainly not enough to say the Panthers are out of the QB market.

 Panthers out at Fields’ pro day

[CWood21]

2 hours ago, iknowcool said:

But the problem is you keep saying this as if it is the definitive truth, and anything else that doesn't align with your opinion is a "smokescreen."  What we're saying is no, you don't really know, and that the Panthers could very well still draft a QB at #8 if say, Fields, falls to them.

Like that is why your sig bet doesn't even make sense, because it isn't my point.  I'm not saying there isn't the possibility the Panthers decide to pass on a QB - it could very well happen.  I'm saying nobody really knows what decision they are going to make at #8, because they have been the one team that hasn't at any point really been connected to any of the QBs in this draft.  I've heard (from more than just the aforementioned Rodrigue) that we love Fields, but that's really it.  So nobody really knows.  But what all we do know is certainly not enough to say the Panthers are out of the QB market.

Yet citing an article from Albert Breer, who last I checked had no connections to the CAR organization, is?  When you hear rumors, you have to use the common sense logic.  Does it pass the common sense test?  If not, it's probably a fake rumor.

[Forge]

9 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

It’s Lance. It was Lance the moment they made the move. 

Lance has to be highly intriguing to Shanahan. Hell, he's highly intriguing to me. He's got a lot of good habits already, young, probably feel like you can mold him more so than the others.  I love everything about his game...except how he throws a football lol...which, you know...is potentially a flaw for a guy who has to pass for a living. 

[Forge]

57 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

 Panthers out at Fields’ pro day

Not a major shock. Jourdan Rodrigue said that they love Fields. It may have been a situation where Carolina made the move on Darnold thinking SF went up for Fields. Now they are questioning whether or not that is actually the case and thinking maybe they still have a shot at Fields. No harm in stopping by. They are also a very good landing spot for New England to trade up for if they aren't interested in a QB, so they could potentially talk some business. 

[Ray Reed]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

Not a major shock. Jourdan Rodrigue said that they love Fields. It may have been a situation where Carolina made the move on Darnold thinking SF went up for Fields. Now they are questioning whether or not that is actually the case and thinking maybe they still have a shot at Fields. No harm in stopping by. They are also a very good landing spot for New England to trade up for if they aren't interested in a QB, so they could potentially talk some business. 

Yup agreed

[iknowcool]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

Yet citing an article from Albert Breer, who last I checked had no connections to the CAR organization, is?  When you hear rumors, you have to use the common sense logic.  Does it pass the common sense test?  If not, it's probably a fake rumor.

Dude, what? You made a definitive statement.  I said it's too early to say that, and that the Panthers very well still could draft a QB.  I posted the Albert Breer thread because this thread is about draft rumors.  It's all rumors.  You're the one though making it seem like the Panthers being out of the QB market is an absolute fact.

But sorry that I lack common sense because I don't think the Panthers would pass on a QB they love just because they traded a 2021 2nd round pick for Sam Darnold.  Because teams don't ever use extra capital on QBs.

You just seemed confused by what I'm saying.  You very well COULD be right.  Just like I COULD be right.  But we don't know.  The difference is you seem to think it is a fact that the Panthers are out of the QB market and are hoping that teams take all the QBs ahead of them.  I don't think that is a fact.  I don't think anyone really knows the Panthers plans.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, iknowcool said:

Dude, what? You made a definitive statement.  I said it's too early to say that, and that the Panthers very well still could draft a QB.  I posted the Albert Breer thread because this thread is about draft rumors.  It's all rumors.  You're the one though making it seem like the Panthers being out of the QB market is an absolute fact.

But sorry that I lack common sense because I don't think the Panthers would pass on a QB they love just because they traded a 2021 2nd round pick for Sam Darnold.  Because teams don't ever use extra capital on QBs.

You just seemed confused by what I'm saying.  You very well COULD be right.  Just like I COULD be right.  But we don't know.  The difference is you seem to think it is a fact that the Panthers are out of the QB market and are hoping that teams take all the QBs ahead of them.  I don't think that is a fact.  I don't think anyone really knows the Panthers plans.

I believe the exact words I used were:

Quote

And then 10 days later, Carolina effectively takes themselves out of the QB market with the Sam Darnold trade.

Call it what it is, but that leaves open the possibility that something unexpected happening (i.e. Trevor Lawrence or Zach Wilson unexpectedly falling).  Do you anticipate either of them falling to 8?  Because I certainly don't.  We also heard that the Panthers felt that the price was too hefty for them to move up.  IF the Panthers truly believe there is a franchise QB available, why would that price tag be too high?  You think teams wouldn't give up multiple FRPs for Josh Allen if they believed in him?  I've said from the get-go that it's exceedingly unlikely that they're taking a QB at 8, and I stand by that comment.   You can't have a situation where you truly believe you're finding a franchise QB, but you're not willing to trade up for them if the opportunity presents itself.  That doesn't make sense together.  Your crux of your argument is that the Panthers didn't give up "that much" for Darnold.  A future SRP isn't insignificant.  That Darnold trade likely would have still be available post-draft, which is why the timing of the trade seems important.

Either way, I think we're going in circles here.  We will find out in a few weeks.

[Awsi Dooger]

2 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

 Panthers out at Fields’ pro day

That's a great tweet..."throw multiple darts at the most important position."

No question the league is clueless in that regard. Miami was moronic not to grasp the value of a second consecutive opportunity to take a quarterback in the top handful of picks. As much as I hated the value Chris Grier received for trading down, the gross error was trading down in the first place. He should have recognized that in the big picture having two chances for a top rated quarterback to pan out is worth exponentially more than one quarterback plus a receiver and a future first round pick.

Analytics may be creeping into game strategy but the league is stuck in conventional wisdom doldrums regarding personnel. No other sport has the gap in value between one role and every other role. That's part of the problem. If football guys had another example of a sport devoting 10x to one position above any other they wouldn't be stuck in this laughable mode of drafting one guy and handing him the tag franchise quarterback while waiting around 3-4 years to start all over again.

[goldfishwars]

My personal take on the 'keep throwing darts at QB' is that it's a really nice argument on paper, but just a complete headache to manage in reality and that's why teams don't do it. Give your guys every chance to succeed, especially when they are young and confidence is fragile.