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New Derek Carr thread

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1 hour ago, BayRaider said:

Not all, no. I’m not crazy. I’m picking Niners to beat Chiefs because they are the better football team, and don’t just have the best QB. Main reason though? Yes. I’d say beside the CB and LB group (post Burfict) Carr is the weak point of our football team. Main reason we lost those games with conservative play style that will not take any risks, will not throw into tight windows, and does not possess the ability to throw receivers open which elite QBs do. Look at Tua and Burrow coming out, both of those guys excel at throwing WRs open. Carr has never done that, he’s never even really tried to do it. 
 

 

And that's where my uncertainty comes in.  You see "better" QBs throwing open WRs.  I see "better" WRs getting open for their QBs.  I'm a firm believer in needing both to be successful.  I know some WRs that can play with just any QB, but I'm not sure if I've ever seen a QB succeed(win and put up big numbers) without good WRs.   

For those two specifically, Tua has had elite talent his entire career around him.  I'll be interested to see how he adjusts to having average guys.  Burrow had one amazing season. Was that him developing? Was it the system? Was it the talent around him?  We will see when he gets to Cincy.  

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1 hour ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

Are there any QB's other than Burrows that would be worth trading up for in the top 10? Or is it too early to tell?

We have let the draft process play out first. Senior Bowl, Combine and workouts..then we'll have a more clear picture. Every season there's a hot QB prospect. Last year it was Murray and Jones who many before the combine had going late 1st round or even mid rounds

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10 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Carr just did an interview and it sounds like he is starting to crack when it comes to his job.  The way he answers the questions would start to irritate me if I had to spend time with someone talking like that.  Like your QB who seems to lack the ability to lead.  Carr does not say anything over the top but I would rather the leader of my team to handle it differently.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/derek-carr-growing-weary-raiders-044145295.html

Listening to Simms talk about Gruden at practice is great also and what they say about Carr is an issue if they are getting information from people within the organization.

Golly Lolol wow carr just sounds sooo soft

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1 hour ago, true2form said:

And that's where my uncertainty comes in.  You see "better" QBs throwing open WRs.  I see "better" WRs getting open for their QBs.  I'm a firm believer in needing both to be successful.  I know some WRs that can play with just any QB, but I'm not sure if I've ever seen a QB succeed(win and put up big numbers) without good WRs.   

For those two specifically, Tua has had elite talent his entire career around him.  I'll be interested to see how he adjusts to having average guys.  Burrow had one amazing season. Was that him developing? Was it the system? Was it the talent around him?  We will see when he gets to Cincy.  

But we have seen him with good wrs and how much he missed cooper his first two years with him. He gets stuck on his first read to much and dont throw into a lot of tight windows or with great anticipation. It's not all bad with him. He has arm talent. He can be a top 12  qb if everything around him is as close to as perfect as it can get. 

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1 hour ago, dante9876 said:

But we have seen him with good wrs and how much he missed cooper his first two years with him. He gets stuck on his first read to much and dont throw into a lot of tight windows or with great anticipation. It's not all bad with him. He has arm talent. He can be a top 12  qb if everything around him is as close to as perfect as it can get. 

Is that an opinion or are you basing it on something?  We saw him with Coop and Crabs and how well they did, not how bad they were.  Right? They were pretty good in the first year together in 2015 and took off running in 2016.  Anyone who disagrees with that, well I don't know what to say.

2017 was a complete offensive meltdown.  I think we all believed Downing was the problem at the time.

2018 was a complete roster tear down. Yes, Carr and Coop were together and clearly not on the same page. I've made my feelings known about Coop not being able to be the #1 guy alone.  It doesn't mean he's bad, he's just not the type of WR to dominate and beat double teams.  Has to have a Crabs or Gallup on the other side to be effective as possible. I realize Coop is the only guy who went elsewhere and played well, so he's the only guy you can point too and say see...look....

2019 second year in the system. Slightly improved play, with slightly better wideouts. Although I could really argue that Jordy and Roberts were just as productive as Williams and Renfrow.  Waller and Cook were mostly a wash too. This has been the biggest gap imo between me and guys wanting to replace Carr.  I think our WR corp is meh and others seem to think they are really good.  I don't know why people think they are/were. I see potential in Williams and Renfrow if they're healthy and not focal points, but part of the group.

2020 third year in the system with a couple new and improved targets??? I'd love a #1 guy, but we really don't need that in this offense.  We just need playmakers who can be where they are supposed to be, catch and run.  It's pretty simple.  I'm taking the best guy available at #12, but if we end up going defense in the firsts and grabbing in the 2nd or 3rd that'll be ok.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, true2form said:

Is that an opinion or are you basing it on something?  We saw him with Coop and Crabs and how well they did, not how bad they were.  Right? They were pretty good in the first year together in 2015 and took off running in 2016.  Anyone who disagrees with that, well I don't know what to say.

2017 was a complete offensive meltdown.  I think we all believed Downing was the problem at the time.

2018 was a complete roster tear down. Yes, Carr and Coop were together and clearly not on the same page. I've made my feelings known about Coop not being able to be the #1 guy alone.  It doesn't mean he's bad, he's just not the type of WR to dominate and beat double teams.  Has to have a Crabs or Gallup on the other side to be effective as possible. I realize Coop is the only guy who went elsewhere and played well, so he's the only guy you can point too and say see...look....

2019 second year in the system. Slightly improved play, with slightly better wideouts. Although I could really argue that Jordy and Roberts were just as productive as Williams and Renfrow.  Waller and Cook were mostly a wash too. This has been the biggest gap imo between me and guys wanting to replace Carr.  I think our WR corp is meh and others seem to think they are really good.  I don't know why people think they are/were. I see potential in Williams and Renfrow if they're healthy and not focal points, but part of the group.

2020 third year in the system with a couple new and improved targets??? I'd love a #1 guy, but we really don't need that in this offense. We just need playmakers who can be where they are supposed to be, catch and run.  It's pretty simple.  I'm taking the best guy available at #12, but if we end up going defense in the firsts and grabbing in the 2nd or 3rd that'll be ok.

 

 

I agree with most of what you have said but not with this. A lot of people like to point to Gannon being the biggest difference X factor the last time Gruden was here. But what I see as a huge difference is who his receivers where, i mean the last time his offense was potent he had two of the best WRs of all time. We keep saying that Carr needs an all time team around him but honestly it seems to me Gruden needs elite WRs to make it work. It seems like his offense is predicated by having guys getting YAC for a first. 

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15 minutes ago, Chali21 said:

I agree with most of what you have said but not with this. A lot of people like to point to Gannon being the biggest difference X factor the last time Gruden was here. But what I see as a huge difference is who his receivers where, i mean the last time his offense was potent he had two of the best WRs of all time. We keep saying that Carr needs an all time team around him but honestly it seems to me Gruden needs elite WRs to make it work. It seems like his offense is predicated by having guys getting YAC for a first. 

But  you have to put throws in space to allow yac and when you get shots you cant miss them. Carr was good in 2016 cause he had a oline who pass protection was ranked top 5 all time. Two wrs that could get open. And a good running game. Carr needs all of that. 

Watching this video was the first time I started to doubt what Carr could become. Some if that was pre snap simple reads. Cooper having to wait on throws on both those post corner routes.  I get it. Dont turnover the ball has been drilled into his head. But that dont mean you have to wait for wr to be wide open to let it fly every time. Only thing I see different in Carr game now than this video is he moves around the pocket slightly better. 

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27 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

let's sign Amari back lol.... would be hilarious

95% of Carr’s career passes over 30 yards has been to coop. 
 

kinda sad

Edited by NCOUGHMAN

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36 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

But  you have to put throws in space to allow yac and when you get shots you cant miss them. Carr was good in 2016 cause he had a oline who pass protection was ranked top 5 all time. Two wrs that could get open. And a good running game. Carr needs all of that. 

Watching this video was the first time I started to doubt what Carr could become. Some if that was pre snap simple reads. Cooper having to wait on throws on both those post corner routes.  I get it. Dont turnover the ball has been drilled into his head. But that dont mean you have to wait for wr to be wide open to let it fly every time. Only thing I see different in Carr game now than this video is he moves around the pocket slightly better. 

Watching 2016 and before version of carr is night and day. He had guts back then and moved very well. Can’t even believe it’s the same guy. It’s like Gucci mane vs new Gucci mane. Carr must’ve got cloned lol

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10 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Watching 2016 and before version of carr is night and day. He had guts back then and moved very well. Can’t even believe it’s the same guy. It’s like Gucci mane vs new Gucci mane. Carr must’ve got cloned lol

Lol that explains everything after the leg they got him cloned but went the cheap Chinese route and it’s the lame duck gutless version 😆

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2 hours ago, Chali21 said:

I agree with most of what you have said but not with this. A lot of people like to point to Gannon being the biggest difference X factor the last time Gruden was here. But what I see as a huge difference is who his receivers where, i mean the last time his offense was potent he had two of the best WRs of all time. We keep saying that Carr needs an all time team around him but honestly it seems to me Gruden needs elite WRs to make it work. It seems like his offense is predicated by having guys getting YAC for a first. 

I don't disagree, but I do think we can make it work with a few #2 type guys.  Let's face it, Brown and Rice weren't #1 types by the end of their careers. However, they knew where to be and how to get open.  Then they could make a play once the ball was in their hands. Porter was the "big play" guy and he was the #3 and late to the party.  

We need a good group overall.  Having practice squad guys out there is just not going to cut it in this offense.

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People act like Carr was garbage 

- 4,000 yards 

- 70 % completion percentage 

- best wideout was a slow, undersized 5th round rookie 

- team improved from 4-12 to 7-9 with a lot of competitive games 

- AB went crazy, and team was so desperate for WR talent they traded in season for 2 wideouts 

- offense was still not a train wreck and made strides 

- defense never creates turnovers, short field advantage,  or gimme points 

- GM and Coach both praise the QB play 

Could Carr be better? Of course, he didn’t have an MVP type of year like Jackson, Wilson, or Mahomes. I don’t think he had a bad year given all the variables with the team. Next year be the time to judge him, with wideout talent, years in the complex system, and more talent across the board. Of course he needs to improve if we want to be a true powerhouse in the AFC. Everybody does 

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