New Derek Carr thread

[jimkelly02]

Does everyone remember “Celtic Pride”?  

I can see BayRaider kidnapping Carr right before the wild card game next year, after Carr leads us to the playoffs....just to Insure we don’t win a game lol.

3 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Not our fault people can't see the difference between Carr 2016 and Carr now, just saying.

I thought Carr never threw anyone open... even in 2016.

its one thing to criticize his play and even want a new QB but come on... the guys played well before.  The way you tell it the guys need jamarcus Russell level for 6 years.

[Gannon12]

4 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Not our fault people can't see the difference between Carr 2016 and Carr now, just saying.

It’s plainly obvious. I just want to see what we do FA and draft if Carr was a still the QB(hopefully with real competition and not just handed the job) of course we root for our team to do good. Otherwise you are not a fan of the team. 

[Gannon12]

Just now, jimkelly02 said:

Does everyone remember “Celtic Pride”?  

I can see BayRaider kidnapping Carr right before the wild card game next year, after Carr leads us to the playoffs....just to Insure we don’t win a game lol.

I thought Carr never threw anyone open... even in 2016.

its one thing to criticize his play and even want a new QB but come on... the guys played well before.  The way you tell it the guys need jamarcus Russell level for 6 years.

I ******* love that movie because I’m not only a Celtic fan I love how they did that then at the end about to do it to D.Sanders

[raidr4life]

4 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Does everyone remember “Celtic Pride”?  

I can see BayRaider kidnapping Carr right before the wild card game next year, after Carr leads us to the playoffs....just to Insure we don’t win a game lol.

I thought Carr never threw anyone open... even in 2016.

its one thing to criticize his play and even want a new QB but come on... the guys played well before.  The way you tell it the guys need jamarcus Russell level for 6 years.

That's not me homey.

[jimkelly02]

14 minutes ago, Gannon12 said:

And I’ll say this cuz the debate is beyond beating a dead horse. If Mayock is comfortable heading into next season I’ll go with it. Although I have my reservations about him post injury. If he wears silver and black I will always root for my team and players.

That’s how the vast majority of even “Carr Supporters” feel. 

I support Carr because he’s our best option at the moment.  If we can trade Carr for a 2nd and get Brady or a better QB then I’m happy to do that to.

 

[Rich7sena]

9 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Not our fault people can't see the difference between Carr 2016 and Carr now, just saying.

The difference has been the offense, not the player. In 2015-16, Carr was playing in a vertical offense that was less "read it" and more "throw it." Plus, Carr was playing in shotgun much more. Now, Carr plays in one of the least QB-friendly systems in the league. He's in the shotgun among the least in the league, and the play-action passing game doesn't routinely get guys open as it does in San Francisco.

This isn't the first time I'm writing this (I did a write-up sometime during or after the 2017 season). That said, Carr has transformed his game to fit Gruden's offense. He's has become a more accurate player at more parts of the field (Carr was notoriously inaccurate early in games in the short game in 2016), and he has markedly improved in the pocket against pressure. The production is down, apart from yards, because the players and play-calling are worse, but by my evaluation--which includes watching every game Carr played since 2016 at least twice and at least once from All-22--Carr is, top-to-bottom, the best he has been.

[BayRaider]

8 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Does everyone remember “Celtic Pride”?  

I can see BayRaider kidnapping Carr right before the wild card game next year, after Carr leads us to the playoffs....just to Insure we don’t win a game lol.

I thought Carr never threw anyone open... even in 2016.

its one thing to criticize his play and even want a new QB but come on... the guys played well before.  The way you tell it the guys need jamarcus Russell level for 6 years.

You are ridiculously building a false narrative around me. Here we go with the Carr cult again. Feel like I’m watching a politic channel and the other party is making the other candidate seem like satan. That’s not me, and you can believe whatever you want. Feel free to block me if it really bothers you that much. 
 

And yes, Carr does not throw guys open, even in 2016. Musgrave’s system is a offense that schemes guys wide open. This is why I think Carr can be a Top 15-16 QB on the Colts. #1 OL in the NFL and Reich schemes guys wide open. 
 

Anticipation throws are literally Carrs #2 worst trait as a QB, right after his absolutely dreadful pocket presence. That’s not very debatable and is a universal opinion around the entire NFL. 
 

[Gannon12]

4 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

You are ridiculously building a false narrative around me. Here we go with the Carr cult again. Feel like I’m watching a politic channel and the other party is making the other candidate seem like satan. That’s not me, and you can believe whatever you want. Feel free to block me if it really bothers you that much. 
 

And yes, Carr does not throw guys open, even in 2016. Musgrave’s system is a offense that schemes guys wide open. This is why I think Carr can be a Top 15-16 QB on the Colts. #1 OL in the NFL and Reich schemes guys wide open. 
 

Anticipation throws are literally Carrs #2 worst trait as a QB, right after his absolutely dreadful pocket presence. That’s not very debatable and is a universal opinion around the entire NFL. 
 

I didn’t agree with his position I just love that movie

[jimkelly02]

17 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

The difference has been the offense, not the player. In 2015-16, Carr was playing in a vertical offense that was less "read it" and more "throw it." Plus, Carr was playing in shotgun much more. Now, Carr plays in one of the least QB-friendly systems in the league. He's in the shotgun among the least in the league, and the play-action passing game doesn't routinely get guys open as it does in San Francisco.

This isn't the first time I'm writing this (I did a write-up sometime during or after the 2017 season). That said, Carr has transformed his game to fit Gruden's offense. He's has become a more accurate player at more parts of the field (Carr was notoriously inaccurate early in games in the short game in 2016), and he has markedly improved in the pocket against pressure. The production is down, apart from yards, because the players and play-calling are worse, but by my evaluation--which includes watching every game Carr played since 2016 at least twice and at least once from All-22--Carr is, top-to-bottom, the best he has been.

I agree with Most of this and while I support Carr I’d have to say he use to be a decent scrambler and now be rarely does it.  He also is more jittery in the pocket.  He doesn’t step up as much into the pocket.  But yes the change in Scheme/Role and loss of WRs (Cooper+Crabs versus Nelson/Roberts or very hurt T.Williams/Renfrow) has crippled the passing game.

his play has gone down a bit, but it can return with talent at WR.  But the scheme change will definitely change things even if we have talent at WR.

[jimkelly02]

24 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

You are ridiculously building a false narrative around me. Here we go with the Carr cult again. Feel like I’m watching a politic channel and the other party is making the other candidate seem like satan. That’s not me, and you can believe whatever you want. Feel free to block me if it really bothers you that much. 
 

And yes, Carr does not throw guys open, even in 2016. Musgrave’s system is a offense that schemes guys wide open. This is why I think Carr can be a Top 15-16 QB on the Colts. #1 OL in the NFL and Reich schemes guys wide open. 
 

Anticipation throws are literally Carrs #2 worst trait as a QB, right after his absolutely dreadful pocket presence. That’s not very debatable and is a universal opinion around the entire NFL. 
 

I don’t need to build a false narrative... some of your takes are proof enough

[BayRaider]

Just now, jimkelly02 said:

I don’t need to build a false narrative... some of your takes are proof enough

As are yours and Frankie. It's very clear you are both Carr fans. I never get attached to players, ever. Years of being an A's fan will do that. You should find any possible way to improve your football team and Carr has been a glaring, very glaring, issue for three long seasons now. It's him. It's not the cast. It's not the coaching. I've seen every Carr game, college included. Even some damn HS games (though that's not really relevant). He is what he is, a conservative QB. Yes, he was even conservative in 2015/2016 until the 4th Quarter. He did average a 7.15 YPA average both seasons and was mostly throwing shorter passes. That's Derek Carrs game. Even in college with two different coaching staffs, it was short-pass galore like screens and constant flat passes. I mean.. I'm basically stating the truth here. It's what Derek Carr is comfortable doing. He is not comfortable playing the intermediate and deep game, especially the deep game. Can go to any neutral football analyst (not PFF ran by fans/nerds) that you want to go to, and they will hold the same opinion. However, we are obviously going to disagree. 

[Rich7sena]

 

 

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Just now, jimkelly02 said:

I agree with Most of this and while I support Carr I’d have to say he use to be a decent scrambler and now be rarely does it.  He also is more jittery in the pocket.  He doesn’t step up as much into the pocket.  But yes the change in Scheme/Role and loss of WRs (Cooper+Crabs versus Nelson/Roberts or very hurt T.Williams/Renfrow) has crippled the passing game.

his play has gone down a bit, but it can return with talent at WR.  But the scheme change will definitely change things even if we have talent at WR.

He never was a good scrambler. He has good straight-line speed, but he would give us something like maybe once a year. I don't subscribe to the thought that every starting quarterback must contribute to the ground game or that they even must routinely extend plays. That said, I disagree that Carr has regressed in this regard--I found him to be more effective as a mover this season than ever. His touchdown scramble--against the Lions I think it was--was his best running play I've ever remember seeing from him.

Going back to 2016 v. 2019: He hasn't been able to routinely make his favorite throw in Gruden's offense: 20-35 yard 9 route on the sideline. I recently watched a 2016 game against the Chargers for old time's sake and man, he threw that ball like he was pitching it to a running-back: automatic. You still see it from time to time. He made some nice sideline throws to Waller this season and he did the same with Cook last season. It's simply not a part of the offense.

[jimkelly02]

2 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

As are yours and Frankie. It's very clear you are both Carr fans. I never get attached to players, ever. Years of being an A's fan will do that. You should find any possible way to improve your football team and Carr has been a glaring, very glaring, issue for three long seasons now. It's him. It's not the cast. It's not the coaching. I've seen every Carr game, college included. Even some damn HS games (though that's not really relevant). He is what he is, a conservative QB. Yes, he was even conservative in 2015/2016 until the 4th Quarter. He did average a 7.15 YPA average both seasons and was mostly throwing shorter passes. That's Derek Carrs game. Even in college with two different coaching staffs, it was short-pass galore like screens and constant flat passes. I mean.. I'm basically stating the truth here. It's what Derek Carr is comfortable doing. He is not comfortable playing the intermediate and deep game, especially the deep game. Can go to any neutral football analyst (not PFF ran by fans/nerds) that you want to go to, and they will hold the same opinion. However, we are obviously going to disagree. 

I don’t disagree with any of that actually. 
ive said it many times, Carr’s got plenty of faults and I’d be down to sign Brady and trade Carr for a 2nd.  
carr’s ultra conservative, it’s annoying. I get it. But he’s not a horrible QB that’s never thrown anyone open.

Carr’s around the 15th best QB In the league who could get up to around 10.  He’s conservative, he has issues.

but he’s not the worst QB ever, we just went 7-9 with him, next to no WR help, and a poor D.

improve the D, get him a WR.... and we can make playoffs.

[jimkelly02]

6 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

He never was a good scrambler. He has good straight-line speed, but he would give us something like maybe once a year. I don't subscribe to the thought that every starting quarterback must contribute to the ground game or that they even must routinely extend plays. That said, I disagree that Carr has regressed in this regard--I found him to be more effective as a mover this season than ever. His touchdown scramble--against the Lions I think it was--was his best running play I've ever remember seeing from him.

Going back to 2016 v. 2019: He hasn't been able to routinely make his favorite throw in Gruden's offense: 20-35 yard 9 route on the sideline. I recently watched a 2016 game against the Chargers for old time's sake and man, he threw that ball like he was pitching it to a running-back: automatic. You still see it from time to time. He made some nice sideline throws to Waller this season and he did the same with Cook last season. It's simply not a part of the offense.

I did a poor job or writing that... sorry i was watching the combine.  Please let me correct myself.....

Carr was never a good scrambler.  But he previously had his moments of being able to run for the 1st down.  They were rare but he’d occasionally do it.  He’s recently completely abandoned that and gotten timid in the pocket.

if he would take off and run, using his very good speed, it’d be very helpful.

[BayRaider]

2 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I don’t disagree with any of that actually. 
ive said it many times, Carr’s got plenty of faults and I’d be down to sign Brady and trade Carr for a 2nd.  
carr’s ultra conservative, it’s annoying. I get it. But he’s not a horrible QB that’s never thrown anyone open.

Carr’s around the 15th best QB In the league who could get up to around 10.  He’s conservative, he has issues.

but he’s not the worst QB ever, we just went 7-9 with him, next to no WR help, and a poor D.

improve the D, get him a WR.... and we can make playoffs.

I agree with a lot of this actually, so we have that going.

I disagree with the Top 15 QB comment though. I have Carr firmly ranked at 19, going through every QB in the NFL. Yes, he's not absolutely terrible, but he is 100% a below average NFL QB.