The MMA Thread | Conor vs Chandler at UFC 303 at 170 lbs (June 29th)

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Leoric said:

So I have more faith in a Jean Jacque Machado>Eddie Bravo>Tony Feguson Black Belt then I do in a Rolls Gracie>Romero Cavalcanti >Rodrigo Medeiros>Tim Creuder. All Black Belts are not equal. That would have been a fun match with Tonon (Who is the third best grappler on his own team). Tonon would have destroyed him just as quickly as Craig Jones did to Rumble Johnson. Grappling is different then UFC. Just being invited to the match doesn't mean you have a chance. The top level grappling guys take the UFC guys because it's a chance to promote the sport where the UFC guys are usually in deep water. Mad props to the guys like Uriah Faber who go out and get schooled by a 17 year old like Nicky Ryan or Roxanne just losing to Silverfox BJJ's Danielle Kelley.

That's all great. But Poirier is a high level BJJ guy and got mauled by Khabib. RDA is a very high level BJJ guy and got mauled by Khabib as well. It would have been nice to see him fight Ferguson but it just never came to fruition unfortunately. But Khabib beat whoever they put in front of him in dominant fashion and left the sport 29-0. That's not denying the greatness of guys like Mighty Mouse, Jon Jones, GSP, or Silva. We've seen Mighty Mouse lose on multiple occasions, we've seen Jon Jones barely squeak past just meh competition, we've seen GSP lose and you can make a strong case that he lost the Hendrix fight before he retired as well. And with Silva we've seen him lose a bunch now and even when he was on his dominant run, lets be honest the level of competition in the sport wasn't even close to what it is now. 

I love Izzy but he has a lot more to prove before he's even in the GOAT discussion. He has had some dominant performances but he has also had some so-so ones as well against Romero, Silva, Martin V, and Gastelum. 

Khabib has just absolutely ran through anyone and everyone that they've put in his way unlike any other fighter we've seen in MMA history. 

[Leoric]

14 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

That's all great. But Poirier is a high level BJJ guy and got mauled by Khabib. RDA is a very high level BJJ guy and got mauled by Khabib as well. It would have been nice to see him fight Ferguson but it just never came to fruition unfortunately. But Khabib beat whoever they put in front of him in dominant fashion and left the sport 29-0. That's not denying the greatness of guys like Mighty Mouse, Jon Jones, GSP, or Silva. We've seen Mighty Mouse lose on multiple occasions, we've seen Jon Jones barely squeak past just meh competition, we've seen GSP lose and you can make a strong case that he lost the Hendrix fight before he retired as well. And with Silva we've seen him lose a bunch now and even when he was on his dominant run, lets be honest the level of competition in the sport wasn't even close to what it is now. 

I love Izzy but he has a lot more to prove before he's even in the GOAT discussion. He has had some dominant performances but he has also had some so-so ones as well against Romero, Silva, Martin V, and Gastelum. 

Khabib has just absolutely ran through anyone and everyone that they've put in his way unlike any other fighter we've seen in MMA history. 

13 fights in the UFC over 8 years. 7 Finishes. It's impressive. Phenomenal fighter and I can't stress how much I like him enough.  I can't put him ahead of guys as goat that did it longer and were a lot more active in their career. The only way to do is to extrapolate and ignore the effect father time has. You don't get to do that. You don't get to just ignore that it's harder to stay on top of the mountain top when EVERYONE is training for just you then it is to climb the mountain.

 

I don't even think he can be #1 P4P. I don't see what he's done that makes him better then Jones or Izzy from a UFC performance point of view. I think most of us would expect Izzy to smoke Khabib at a catch weight and we know what a motivated Jones would do to Izzy. The other part is Khabib's big fight, his huge moment is a victory over Connor, perhaps the most overrated fighter of all time. Compare that with the resume of Jones. You read his fight history and it's multiple hall of famers, and a who's who of the sport.

 

As for the era thing of course it's hard to compare. You can only compare them versus the level of competition they faced at the time. They also didn't have the level of training, or advantage of pro camps. The money wasn't there either. The early UFC winners got 50k fought multiple times in a night with no rounds or weight classes. That doesn't mean they weren't by far bigger BMF's then Jorge Masvidal. Another name that deserves to be in the GOAT discussion is Amanda Nunes. If we are allowing the qualification of how good you look while destroying your competition Nunes has a way better argument then anyone out there finishing 10/14 in the UFC.

[GSUeagles14]

1 hour ago, Leoric said:

13 fights in the UFC over 8 years. 7 Finishes. It's impressive. Phenomenal fighter and I can't stress how much I like him enough.  I can't put him ahead of guys as goat that did it longer and were a lot more active in their career. The only way to do is to extrapolate and ignore the effect father time has. You don't get to do that. You don't get to just ignore that it's harder to stay on top of the mountain top when EVERYONE is training for just you then it is to climb the mountain.

 

I don't even think he can be #1 P4P. I don't see what he's done that makes him better then Jones or Izzy from a UFC performance point of view. I think most of us would expect Izzy to smoke Khabib at a catch weight and we know what a motivated Jones would do to Izzy. The other part is Khabib's big fight, his huge moment is a victory over Connor, perhaps the most overrated fighter of all time. Compare that with the resume of Jones. You read his fight history and it's multiple hall of famers, and a who's who of the sport.

 

As for the era thing of course it's hard to compare. You can only compare them versus the level of competition they faced at the time. They also didn't have the level of training, or advantage of pro camps. The money wasn't there either. The early UFC winners got 50k fought multiple times in a night with no rounds or weight classes. That doesn't mean they weren't by far bigger BMF's then Jorge Masvidal. Another name that deserves to be in the GOAT discussion is Amanda Nunes. If we are allowing the qualification of how good you look while destroying your competition Nunes has a way better argument then anyone out there finishing 10/14 in the UFC.

Khabib has dominated literally everyone. thats not hyperbole. Jones has failed ped tests and close fights that he possibly lost. Also, since khabib got in the ufc, he has one more fight than Jones. Izzys been super active but he still needs to do it a little longer than 2-3 years. 

 

Also, despite Izzy having massive physical advantages over khabib, theres a realy chance that khabib just smokes him. izzy has power, but i think its kinda likely khabob just walks through it and drags him to the ground. 

[BullsandBroncos]

Jon Jones is the GOAT. Don't care about the PEDs. Wrecked DC. Came back and wrecked Gus. Rua was on PEDs and Jones murdered him. That's what I don't put too much stock into PEDs. I'd say most Fighters Jon fought in his career and still to this day are all physically stronger than him. Machida was going to break his arm then he found a way to choke him out standing up. Rampage Jackson was on a good run before Jones choked him out too. Belfort was more roided out. He was destroyed.

 

PEDs in MMA is not the same as PEDs in baseball. 

 

Jon is the GOAT followed by Spider, GSP, and then Khabib. Long periods of dominance are what matter the most.

 

If Conor wasnt big headed, he would be the greatest FW fighter of all time and would have a similar run on that division probably.

[beekay414]

Reyes vs Jiri P in February @Buckrock101

[NYRaider]

52 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Reyes vs Jiri P in February @Buckrock101

One of my good friends older brother is Reyes head coach. 

[Buckrock101]

2 hours ago, beekay414 said:

Reyes vs Jiri P in February @Buckrock101

RIP Dom. We hardly knew ye

[big poppa pump]

PED's don't mean much in MMA.

 

I'm sure most fighters that have never taken PED's would agree with that statement!!

 

 

[NYRaider]

17 hours ago, BullsandBroncos said:

If Conor wasnt big headed, he would be the greatest FW fighter of all time and would have a similar run on that division probably.

Conor was on the verge of death making 145 for that Aldo fight. He might have been able to make the weight a couple more times but he was always going to have to go up to 155. 

[NYRaider]

17 hours ago, BullsandBroncos said:

Jon Jones is the GOAT. Don't care about the PEDs. Wrecked DC. Came back and wrecked Gus. Rua was on PEDs and Jones murdered him. That's what I don't put too much stock into PEDs. I'd say most Fighters Jon fought in his career and still to this day are all physically stronger than him. Machida was going to break his arm then he found a way to choke him out standing up. Rampage Jackson was on a good run before Jones choked him out too. Belfort was more roided out. He was destroyed.

Jones is obviously one of the best ever but it's hard for me to call him the GOAT. One reason is that he seemed to just coast and barely do enough to win fights as his career has progressed. Plus you can make a case that he lost the first Gus fight, the Reyes fight, and the split decision over Santos. Another reason is that he still hasn't moved up to heavyweight which makes it seem like he's ducking tougher fights. Especially after DC was able to move up to HW, win the belt, and then defend the title as the champ champ. 

17 hours ago, BullsandBroncos said:

PEDs in MMA is not the same as PEDs in baseball. 

That's true, PEDs in MMA are about a million times worse because they give you a much greater competitive advantage. In baseball PEDs help guys hit a ball further or throw a ball faster, which certainly helps. But in MMA, which is a game of inches where guys can literally die in the cage if they're hit in the wrong spot, PEDs give fighters a much bigger competitive advantage. 

17 hours ago, BullsandBroncos said:

Jon is the GOAT followed by Spider, GSP, and then Khabib. Long periods of dominance are what matter the most.

Long periods of dominance play a role but they're not what matter most. Bill Russell won 11 NBA titles and had a much longer period of dominance than Michael Jordan who only won 6. So why doesn't everyone consider Russell the GOAT over Jordan? Because context matters including the era you won in, the level of competition at the time, and how dominant you were at your best. 

We saw Silva lose fights before his dominant run as well as after his dominant run, plus the level of competition he faced on his great run wasn't nearly as high as the current UFC. 

We saw GSP lose a couple of fights before his dominant run and you can make a strong case that he lost the Hendrix fight before he retired. 

Jones was dominant early in his career but seemingly just coasted in a lot of his most recent fights and has a few very close decision victories that you can argue he lost. And he has also refused to challenge himself and go up to fight at HW. 

With Khabib we've never even seen him in a fight that was remotely competitive. The only real knock on him was that he had hadn't done it against top competition but he just dominated McGregor, Poirier, and Gathje all 3 of whom have been champions or interim champions and were in their prime. 

[beekay414]

 

[FinneasGage]

11 hours ago, beekay414 said:

 

damn perry probably gets KO'd again **** lol 

[11sanchez11]

9 hours ago, FinneasGage said:

damn perry probably gets KO'd again **** lol 

we can all hope

[11sanchez11]

Main event next already.

[beekay414]

Bellator's production just puts me to sleep every time I watch it. Doesn't matter how big the fight is. Bellator's just a second rate organization tbqh.