beekay414 Posted July 9, 2020 Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 How many times do we have to say it? MMA math at the elite level doesn't always work. If you're watching some PFL crap or BAMMA, sure, but it's never as simple as we think it'll be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, BullsandBroncos said: I don't he's comparing Jorge's power to anyone else or anything like that. He's saying that if Jorge gets in the same shots on Usman that Colby did, Jorge has a very good shot at winning. Which is completely true. I think most of us think Jorge can't wrestle well at all and Usman is going to lay on him like a dead fish but not all of us want to say it. but who else has gotten those shots in? when else hasnt usman wrestled? and wrestling isnt a negative, its up to the other guy to get up. if usman lays on him like a "dead fish" its mostly masvidals fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullsandBroncos Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Just now, GSUeagles14 said: but who else has gotten those shots in? when else hasnt usman wrestled? and wrestling isnt a negative, its up to the other guy to get up. if usman lays on him like a "dead fish" its mostly masvidals fault. Not really. Specifically talking about the Woodley fight, they weren't stood up when they should have been. Laying on someone like a dead fish, sure it's his fault for being taken down but if you lay on the guy and don't try to submit him or beat his brains out with punches, you should be stood up. Plain and simple. If you're not gonna work, you should be stood up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, BullsandBroncos said: Not really. Specifically talking about the Woodley fight, they weren't stood up when they should have been. Laying on someone like a dead fish, sure it's his fault for being taken down but if you lay on the guy and don't try to submit him or beat his brains out with punches, you should be stood up. Plain and simple. If you're not gonna work, you should be stood up. why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullsandBroncos Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: why? It literally falls under stalling rules. You can't just lay on top of someone without trying to work a submission or ground and pound. And in traditional wrestling as well, you're stood up if you're not doing anything. "Action is to be maintained throughout the match by the contestants staying near the center of the octagon, cage, mat and wrestling/grappling aggressively in all positions (top, bottom or neutral). Stalling is defined as one or both fighters attempting to avoid wrestling/grappling action as an offensive or defensive strategyFeb 25, 2017 Edited July 10, 2020 by BullsandBroncos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, BullsandBroncos said: It literally falls under stalling rules. You can't just lay on top of someone without trying to work a submission or ground and pound. And in traditional wrestling as well, you're stood up if you're not doing anything. "Action is to be maintained throughout the match by the contestants staying near the center of the octagon, cage, mat and wrestling/grappling aggressively in all positions (top, bottom or neutral). Stalling is defined as one or both fighters attempting to avoid wrestling/grappling action as an offensive or defensive strategyFeb 25, 2017 well youre not avoiding wrestling if youre holding someone down. its very subjective as to what aggressive is as well. holding someone down is work, i dont particularly like the strategy but i would never call usman a lay and pray guy either. that would just be hating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullsandBroncos Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 minute ago, GSUeagles14 said: well youre not avoiding wrestling if youre holding someone down. its very subjective as to what aggressive is as well. holding someone down is work, i dont particularly like the strategy but i would never call usman a lay and pray guy either. that would just be hating. Yes you are. The whole point after getting them down is to either ground and pound or submission. If you're not working to get either of those, it falls under stalling. There's no back points in MMA or pin falls. I never called him a lay and pray guy, but that is exactly what he did against Woodley because he was afraid of the overrated overhand right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, BullsandBroncos said: Yes you are. The whole point after getting them down is to either ground and pound or submission. If you're not working to get either of those, it falls under stalling. There's no back points in MMA or pin falls. I never called him a lay and pray guy, but that is exactly what he did against Woodley because he was afraid of the overrated overhand right. what you quoted doesnt say that, was that the actual rule? oh, and usman landed 141 significant strikes in that woodley fight. landed, not attempted. Thats a lot, fyi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullsandBroncos Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: what you quoted doesnt say that, was that the actual rule? oh, and usman landed 141 significant strikes in that woodley fight. landed, not attempted. Thats a lot, fyi. It is the exact rule. Marc Goddard stood them up twice because of it if I remember correctly. Herb Dean has let Khabib get away with it a far amount when he occasionally wraps the legs of the bottom fighter which is fine, but he sometimes never tries to advance or have any action. Action is an absolute must, top or bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 40 minutes ago, BullsandBroncos said: It is the exact rule. Marc Goddard stood them up twice because of it if I remember correctly. Herb Dean has let Khabib get away with it a far amount when he occasionally wraps the legs of the bottom fighter which is fine, but he sometimes never tries to advance or have any action. Action is an absolute must, top or bottom. most importantly, did you miss the part about usman landing 141 significant strikes against woodley? Secondly, what youre saying the rule is and what the rule actually is doesnt match up. Theres grey areas that different refs interpret differently, which I believe I already mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11sanchez11 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 maia v masvidal was weird maia won a split decision almost 100% based on control, he doled out no damage and didn't even get close to any submissions. he was a backpack in R1 I'm pretty sure jorge will be able to get up often enough against usman, don't know if he will be able to push the pace to stay w/ usman tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 I'm gonna be on a boat all day but I'm hoping I get home before Prochazka pushes Volkan's **** in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 11 hours ago, GSUeagles14 said: but jorge diesnt have that kind of power. he certainly has it but hss not conor, hes not woodley in his prime etc. he hits hard but its not insane if he touches you your in trouble power. and i hope youre not comparing jorges wrestling to colbys. colby is just about a world class wrestler in a mma sense, jorge got taken down mutliple times by Demian Maia. im not saying jorge cant win, im saying theres very limited pathes, basically being he clips usman just right or usman forgets he can completley outclass jorge in the wrestling department and just decides to trade. but we've seen that usman has at least decent fight iq so that seems like a low possibility. 1. Just saying Usman got hit ALOT in the Colby fight and Jorge does still hit hard and fast. He can just as easily put together a 3-piece and put him down 2. Absolutely not, Colby's wrestling is far superior 3. Asking what someones path to victory is kind of makes it sound like you dont see it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 4 hours ago, 11sanchez11 said: maia v masvidal was weird maia won a split decision almost 100% based on control, he doled out no damage and didn't even get close to any submissions. he was a backpack in R1 I'm pretty sure jorge will be able to get up often enough against usman, don't know if he will be able to push the pace to stay w/ usman tho Yea pushing the pace isnt something Jorge wants to do and the longer the fight goes, the farther it helps the champ. First 3 rounds should be very interesting but if Jorge has been taken down a few times, even if Usman doesnt do a ton, it'll still wear on Jorge more who has the lesser gas tank(assuming Usman doesnt gas himself out shooting too much if Jorge defends enough TDs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcFinest9erFan Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 https://www.mmafighting.com/2020/7/10/21319821/ufc-picks-venum-to-replace-reebok-as-exclusive-outfitting-partner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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