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2020 Titans Off-Season


KingTitan

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It just sounds like a lot of emotion. Which I get. And there’s absolutely value beyond just production. But there’s definitely something to be said for the fact that in all of this argument, nobody has really pointed to any massive RB contracts that worked out for the team. The closest thing I can think of is Adrian Peterson, and I just don’t see Derrick as that kind of generational player.

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17 minutes ago, titans0021 said:

It just sounds like a lot of emotion. Which I get. And there’s absolutely value beyond just production. But there’s definitely something to be said for the fact that in all of this argument, nobody has really pointed to any massive RB contracts that worked out for the team. The closest thing I can think of is Adrian Peterson, and I just don’t see Derrick as that kind of generational player.

Nailed it.

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I think the thing yall are getting wrong about this whole discussion is that you’re asking the wrong question. Historically RBs don’t have seasons like Henry had again. So if you’re looking for a replacement that can do what Henry did, you won’t find one, including with Derrick Henry.

The question that should be asked is if we can find another RB to do what Henry is likely to do next year.

Unless you really think he’s one of a handful of players at the position in history who will buck this trend, in which case he absolutely deserved Zeke money because he’s a generational talent.

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32 minutes ago, titans0021 said:

It just sounds like a lot of emotion. Which I get. And there’s absolutely value beyond just production. But there’s definitely something to be said for the fact that in all of this argument, nobody has really pointed to any massive RB contracts that worked out for the team. The closest thing I can think of is Adrian Peterson, and I just don’t see Derrick as that kind of generational player.

What is emotional about the season he had and the run at the end of the year. 
It's being presented like he averaged 60 yards a game, got the playoffs turned it on and had some magical moment that we are still riding the emotions from. It has been a consistent rise to being a dominating player. 


He led the league in rushing. 
16 rushing TDs. 5.1 yards per carry. 2nd team All-Pro. Pro-Bowl
He turned in a run of 15 or more yards once out of every 16 carries this season; the rest of the NFL’s running backs averaged one every 22 carries. Henry’s 23 runs of 15 yards or more, in the regular season and playoffs, are the most in the NFL; only two other players (Cleveland’s Nick Chubb and Oakland’s Josh Jacobs) had more than 13.

And I'm sure there are some more statistical and analytical things that will further show this is beyond an emotional decision. It's keeping one of the most productive RBs in the NFL. 
It's said he isn't the receiving threat that Elliot is...with that "lack" he still only came 31 yards behind him with yards from scrimmage.
He is a physical anomaly. He isn't Nick Chubb or  Leonard Foruntte. 

Adrian Peterson had 1198 carries in his first 4 years.
Derrick has 804.  
Peterson had 5,782 yards.  Derrick has 3833

Close to an 2,000 yard difference on a difference of 394 carries (almost a year and half worth). Derrick was a part time back until middle of last year. 
That's not far off from a "generational" talent like Peterson. 
Henry has been a beast at every level he has been at. Work ethic, character level...all tops. 

This is not an emotional decision. It is looking at this player and seeing what he has done and projecting that he will continue to do just that, unlike many players before him and playing with him at the moment. 
If they can come to a number that doesn't mess up the team then sign him. Even if it makes him one of the highest at his position. 

 

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1 hour ago, titans0021 said:

It just sounds like a lot of emotion. Which I get. And there’s absolutely value beyond just production. But there’s definitely something to be said for the fact that in all of this argument, nobody has really pointed to any massive RB contracts that worked out for the team. The closest thing I can think of is Adrian Peterson, and I just don’t see Derrick as that kind of generational player.

Is it really true that Zeke’s contract hasn’t worked out for Dallas? Or has Dallas’ shortcomings been because of the coaching staff?

Lets ask a Dallas fan. Would you say Zeke’s contract has not worked out for you guys? @Matts4313

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2 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

 

Is it really true that Zeke’s contract hasn’t worked out for Dallas? Or has Dallas’ shortcomings been because of the coaching staff?

Lets ask a Dallas fan. Would you say Zeke’s contract has not worked out for you guys? @Matts4313

We’re also one year into it, which is way too early to be judging that deal.

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54 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

What is emotional about the season he had and the run at the end of the year. 
It's being presented like he averaged 60 yards a game, got the playoffs turned it on and had some magical moment that we are still riding the emotions from. It has been a consistent rise to being a dominating player. 


He led the league in rushing. 
16 rushing TDs. 5.1 yards per carry. 2nd team All-Pro. Pro-Bowl
He turned in a run of 15 or more yards once out of every 16 carries this season; the rest of the NFL’s running backs averaged one every 22 carries. Henry’s 23 runs of 15 yards or more, in the regular season and playoffs, are the most in the NFL; only two other players (Cleveland’s Nick Chubb and Oakland’s Josh Jacobs) had more than 13.

And I'm sure there are some more statistical and analytical things that will further show this is beyond an emotional decision. It's keeping one of the most productive RBs in the NFL. 
It's said he isn't the receiving threat that Elliot is...with that "lack" he still only came 31 yards behind him with yards from scrimmage.
He is a physical anomaly. He isn't Nick Chubb or  Leonard Foruntte. 

Adrian Peterson had 1198 carries in his first 4 years.
Derrick has 804.  
Peterson had 5,782 yards.  Derrick has 3833

Close to an 2,000 yard difference on a difference of 394 carries (almost a year and half worth). Derrick was a part time back until middle of last year. 
That's not far off from a "generational" talent like Peterson. 
Henry has been a beast at every level he has been at. Work ethic, character level...all tops. 

This is not an emotional decision. It is looking at this player and seeing what he has done and projecting that he will continue to do just that, unlike many players before him and playing with him at the moment. 
If they can come to a number that doesn't mess up the team then sign him. Even if it makes him one of the highest at his position. 

 

Nailed it 

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53 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

What is emotional about the season he had and the run at the end of the year. 
It's being presented like he averaged 60 yards a game, got the playoffs turned it on and had some magical moment that we are still riding the emotions from. It has been a consistent rise to being a dominating player. 


He led the league in rushing. 
16 rushing TDs. 5.1 yards per carry. 2nd team All-Pro. Pro-Bowl
He turned in a run of 15 or more yards once out of every 16 carries this season; the rest of the NFL’s running backs averaged one every 22 carries. Henry’s 23 runs of 15 yards or more, in the regular season and playoffs, are the most in the NFL; only two other players (Cleveland’s Nick Chubb and Oakland’s Josh Jacobs) had more than 13.

And I'm sure there are some more statistical and analytical things that will further show this is beyond an emotional decision. It's keeping one of the most productive RBs in the NFL. 
It's said he isn't the receiving threat that Elliot is...with that "lack" he still only came 31 yards behind him with yards from scrimmage.
He is a physical anomaly. He isn't Nick Chubb or  Leonard Foruntte. 

Adrian Peterson had 1198 carries in his first 4 years.
Derrick has 804.  
Peterson had 5,782 yards.  Derrick has 3833

Close to an 2,000 yard difference on a difference of 394 carries (almost a year and half worth). Derrick was a part time back until middle of last year. 
That's not far off from a "generational" talent like Peterson. 
Henry has been a beast at every level he has been at. Work ethic, character level...all tops. 

This is not an emotional decision. It is looking at this player and seeing what he has done and projecting that he will continue to do just that, unlike many players before him and playing with him at the moment. 
If they can come to a number that doesn't mess up the team then sign him. Even if it makes him one of the highest at his position. 

 

I had a long response typed out, phone refreshed, nothing saved.

So I’ll keep it shorter.

One extra 15 yard gain per 50 attempts is not all that significant. It’s stats like that, where the gap between the league leader and the league average is less than one a game, that play a huge role in why analytics simply never recommend paying a back. Especially when you consider that the starting QB some of you would rather let walk over Henry averaged over 13 yards PER completion. Not every 16 attempts, but literally per completed pass.

Comparing the worst year (by yards per carry and yards per game) of Zeke’s career after he held out and was paid to Henry’s best year seems silly, but I guess I’ll bite. The receptions aren’t as much about the yardage totals as much as they’re an indicator that they don’t have to take their highest paid skill player off the field in big situations because he can’t run routes or catch the ball. Meanwhile we’re out here taking our best player off the field on third down to give reps to Dion Lewis.

As for the Peterson comp, even a non receiving threat like AP had twice as many catches as Henry in his first four years. On top of the fact that just assuming Henry would’ve maintained his production with a full work load seems generous.

Beyond that, of course it’s emotional. We’re coming off an incredible stretch run, it’d be impossible to not be emotional about the potential of letting him walk. But he’s not irreplaceable. For as much as everyone walks to talk like Tannehill is expendable, I feel like some of you guys are forgetting that Henry was averaging under four yards per carry before RT took over.

I’m not going to be mad if we resign Henry. Because I love the guy, he’s a leader, and watching him bully two of my most hated teams in the playoffs was incredible. But I’m also not going to pretend that, analytically, it’s a smart football decision. The obvious solution is transition tag, watch the limited offers roll in, and work from there. But I’m doubtful that’s the path we will take.

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A lot of times analytics are just another way for a coach or gm to say I don't know or have a feel for what to do so let the numbers tell me.

Football is still won based on feel and feeling what is the right thing to do.  So yeah on that front it's emotional. 

But again if we talking numbers, stats.... Henry has nothing to prove to me. 

Analytics say player x shouldn't be drafted because of height weight and speed. But then turns into a hof type Player. 

I'm trusting my eyes and my eyes say pay to keep him. Opposed to similar players at his position with comparable numbers. 

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43 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

What contracts are you referring to that there weren’t clear and obvious red flags before the team inked them?

Gurley, David Johnson, Freeman, CJ. Off the top of my head. What are the deals for RBs that led to sustained success on a second deal?

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1 hour ago, dtait93 said:

 

Is it really true that Zeke’s contract hasn’t worked out for Dallas? Or has Dallas’ shortcomings been because of the coaching staff?

Lets ask a Dallas fan. Would you say Zeke’s contract has not worked out for you guys? @Matts4313

I feel like I am the last person you want to ask about paying a RB..

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37 minutes ago, titans0021 said:

I had a long response typed out, phone refreshed, nothing saved.

So I’ll keep it shorter.

One extra 15 yard gain per 50 attempts is not all that significant. It’s stats like that, where the gap between the league leader and the league average is less than one a game, that play a huge role in why analytics simply never recommend paying a back. Especially when you consider that the starting QB some of you would rather let walk over Henry averaged over 13 yards PER completion. Not every 16 attempts, but literally per completed pass.

Comparing the worst year (by yards per carry and yards per game) of Zeke’s career after he held out and was paid to Henry’s best year seems silly, but I guess I’ll bite. The receptions aren’t as much about the yardage totals as much as they’re an indicator that they don’t have to take their highest paid skill player off the field in big situations because he can’t run routes or catch the ball. Meanwhile we’re out here taking our best player off the field on third down to give reps to Dion Lewis.

As for the Peterson comp, even a non receiving threat like AP had twice as many catches as Henry in his first four years. On top of the fact that just assuming Henry would’ve maintained his production with a full work load seems generous.

Beyond that, of course it’s emotional. We’re coming off an incredible stretch run, it’d be impossible to not be emotional about the potential of letting him walk. But he’s not irreplaceable. For as much as everyone walks to talk like Tannehill is expendable, I feel like some of you guys are forgetting that Henry was averaging under four yards per carry before RT took over.

I’m not going to be mad if we resign Henry. Because I love the guy, he’s a leader, and watching him bully two of my most hated teams in the playoffs was incredible. But I’m also not going to pretend that, analytically, it’s a smart football decision. The obvious solution is transition tag, watch the limited offers roll in, and work from there. But I’m doubtful that’s the path we will take.

Yes Peterson has more catches, but he started day 1 Henry didn’t. As for Tannehill he’s good but he’s not elite he’s a high efficient game manager, 75% of his throws come off play action. What kills me is people love to bring up we shouldn’t pay Henry because he’s 1 dimensional but are so blind to the fact, that if Henry possessed Marshall Faulk, Leveon Bell, Alvin kumara receiving ability 🗣it’s a 80% chance we wouldn’t take advantage of it to begin with. Use your head people the titans are a run 1st throw back stuck in the 90’s offense, we wasted 10 mill on Deion Lewis & still haven’t came close to using him how NE used him, far as getting him out in space, & involved in the passing game running routes. We pretty much use all our RB’s the same catching screens or check downs in the flat. We had a #1 WR & still didn’t do a great job of getting him involved. He avg 5 targets a game 20yrds a catch. Every skill position player from Humphries to Jonnu to Davis are all underused. But y’all make excuses why we shouldn’t pay Henry, he’s has proven himself that even Eddie George, Shannon sharpe, Eric Dickerson & Vrabel have said he just needed the ball he gets better with every Carry & is capable of Leading the league in rushing every year in our offense.. 

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