2020 Titans Off-Season

[TitanSS]

2 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

I'd more than welcome that transition. 
QB centered offense, except....oh. don't have the QB or the scheme. 

Thinking about it, I actually think it would be cheaper to have the RB to be the main cog of your offense and find QBs with certain skills that fit the offense.  Pay a RB about $40 million opposed to a QB $145 Million? Keep getting mid-level QBs?  Could revolutionize the league! lol 

1. Stronger than average arm.
2. Willingness to make a tight throw.
3. Mobile
4. Selfless
5. Throw on the move.
6. Won't hesitate..

Those are things Tanny has done. He wasn't a master at reading defenses. He didn't fool DBs. He was great with our scheme, that doesn't call for the QB to be Manning. It calls for him to be at the least.....Tanny. 

It's not sexy but i can see Vrabel and company saying we need a stronger defense, run game that can feed a play action. 

That's basically what we're doing with Tannehill, but you don't need a 15m RB to succeed with play-action. However, you do need good CBs and EDs to field this defense you want, and they become increasingly hard to afford when you're paying a RB.

If paying Henry doesn't get in the way of signing someone else, we would all be for it. Why downgrade if you don't have to sacrifice anything else to keep him?

But that's not the case and it will certainly lead to a sacrifice somewhere else on this roster at one point or another.

[TitanSlim]

One thing's for certain, we're really going to see just how legit Jon Robinson is this offseason.

[KingTitan]

1 minute ago, TitanSS said:

That's basically what we're doing with Tannehill, but you don't need a 15m RB to succeed with play-action. However, you do need good CBs and EDs to field this defense you want, and they become increasingly hard to afford when you're paying a RB.

If paying Henry doesn't get in the way of signing someone else, we would all be for it. Why downgrade if you don't have to sacrifice anything else to keep him?

But that's not the case and it will certainly lead to a sacrifice somewhere else on this roster at one point or another.

Nothing official, but I'm hearing Conklin is looking to set the market for RTs.  Logan wants to stay in the $10 million range.

If we are trying to not pay Henry to pay one or both of those guys, I think it won't matter.

[KingTitan]

1 minute ago, TitanSlim said:

One thing's for certain, we're really going to see just how legit Jon Robinson is this offseason.

I think we will walk away saying "That boy good!"

lol

[dtait93]

Tannehill entering the scene for Mariota sky rocketed our offense because it no longer made our offense one dimensional, which inevitably helped Henry, but let's not pretend there weren't a myriad of other factors that contributed to Henry having a slow start compared to his finish that analytics doesn't capture.

Lewan missing the first 4 games played a role. The time it took for Lewan and Saffold to build chemistry on the left after his suspension played a role. Nate Davis getting rag-dolled every weekend until he came in to his own in the mid-late season played a role. And last but not least, it was Arthur's first time ever calling plays or being OC, and that played a role. Analytics doesn't capture any of that. It was a combination of those things being fixed along with the insertion of Tannehill that allowed our offense to be one of the tops in the league. It wasn't just Tannehill. It also took Henry being great.

Edited January 21, 2020 by dtait93

[TitanRedd]

4 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

I think we will walk away saying "That boy good!"

lol

🤣🤣🤣

[TitanSlim]

This Henry discussion is why I stay on this forum. Compelling discussion both ways.

As much as I love Henry, I'm legitimate torn on whether to break the bank for him or let him walk and build up our defense. It truly feels like the ole heart vs brain argument.

[TitanSS]

36 minutes ago, titans0021 said:

I’m here for the arguments for why we should let Henry walk. I’m certainly not excited to pay him $15 million per year and think there’s probably a legitimate argument to be made for running the offense through Tannehill, AJ, CD, Hump and Jonnu. I also think it’s important to recognize that we do not have an analytical based coaching staff or FO and there’s no chance we let Henry walk.

With that said, I’m not quite sure I’m there yet with football analytics. The complete disregard for skill position players really only works with elite QB play and/or design and scheme (and even that only carries you so far, see 2019 Rams). If running backs are completely meaningless, which is certainly the argument if Henry is worth .1 WAR as the league leader in yards and yards after contact, and receivers are shiny hood ornaments (as I’ve been told 100 times), I wish you the best of luck in building a consistently competent offense without a generational QB or a generational coach, which, you know, are pretty hard to find.

I don't know that skill positions are disregarded. They are easily less valuable than QB and RB is less valuable than WR.

It's not that RBs don't matter, because they do, but is the degree that they matter worth the contract they get in a salary cap situation?

Zeke is nearly paid the same APY as Za'Darius Smith. He was a top pass rusher that hit the market and got top dollar and had 13.5 sacks last season.

Zeke is a RB who signed an extension with his own team. He had 4.5 YPC on 301 carries. His backup had 5.3 YPC on 86 carries.

For close to the same cap number, which one provides more value to their team? I think all of us would agree it's the pass rusher.

 

[TitanSS]

6 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

Nothing official, but I'm hearing Conklin is looking to set the market for RTs.  Logan wants to stay in the $10 million range.

If we are trying to not pay Henry to pay one or both of those guys, I think it won't matter.

Ultimately, I think they see Henry as a star on the team and pay him for that, regardless of his position. There's no way to quantify that with stats from gameday. They can probably calculate the revenue they lose in merchandise if he walks.

I'm just here for the conversation, despite thinking they will do the opposite of what I think is best.

Personally, I would let Ryan and Henry walk. Maybe take Ryan on a bargain deal, same with Henry.

PFF has Ryan charted allowing catches on 80 of 114 targets and having a career high 20 missed tackles last season. I think he's good in his versatile role, but he's too much of a liability against speed in a division who's competition features Fuller and Stills and a conference who's competition features KCs track team.

[KingTitan]

1 minute ago, TitanSS said:

I don't know that skill positions are disregarded. They are easily less valuable than QB and RB is less valuable than WR.

It's not that RBs don't matter, because they do, but is the degree that they matter worth the contract they get in a salary cap situation?

Zeke is nearly paid the same APY as Za'Darius Smith. He was a top pass rusher that hit the market and got top dollar and had 13.5 sacks last season.

Zeke is a RB who signed an extension with his own team. He had 4.5 YPC on 301 carries. His backup had 5.3 YPC on 86 carries.

For close to the same cap number, which one provides more value to their team? I think all of us would agree it's the pass rusher.

 

Are you saying that Pollard is a better player and back than Zeke?

Could also be said that Smith FA signing was a risky/foolish one. A guy that had only topped out at 8.5 sacks and his total sack production for his career was close to this one year of production.  Would you feel comfortable giving Landry the type of money Smith got?
or
Trading #1's and paying Frank Clark $100 Million for 8 sacks? 

If we talking money and production being tied together. 
Cause both these players previous teams let them walk based on their production/asking price and edge rushers are supposed to be a premium spot. 
While teams have paid their RBs to stay, they let their edges walk....

Would we better off attempting to sign an edge in FA?

 

Titania Baby!  Home of the great discussion.  

[TitanSS]

Just now, KingTitan said:

Are you saying that Pollard is a better player and back than Zeke?

Could also be said that Smith FA signing was a risky/foolish one. A guy that had only topped out at 8.5 sacks and his total sack production for his career was close to this one year of production.  Would you feel comfortable giving Landry the type of money Smith got?
or
Trading #1's and paying Frank Clark $100 Million for 8 sacks? 

If we talking money and production being tied together. 
Cause both these players previous teams let them walk based on their production/asking price and edge rushers are supposed to be a premium spot. 
While teams have paid their RBs to stay, they let their edges walk....

Would we better off attempting to sign an edge in FA?

 

Titania Baby!  Home of the great discussion.  

I'm not saying Pollard is a better player. Zeke is better. I'm saying they could have saved themselves 15+m a year without a massive loss in their running game because the RBs stats are ultimately a result of how good the OL is, not how good the RB is.

[TitanRedd]

9 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

I'm not saying Pollard is a better player. Zeke is better. I'm saying they could have saved themselves 15+m a year without a massive loss in their running game because the RBs stats are ultimately a result of how good the OL is, not how good the RB is.

& the cowboys still have over 70 mill in cap space & a elite pass rush, you can’t compare the cowboy situation to ours, they’re pretty much set aside of a HC that team is loaded with talent. 

[TitanSlim]

Say they're both getting $13.5/14 mil a year. Would you rather have Derrick Henry or Matt Judon?

[TitanSS]

10 minutes ago, TitanRedd said:

& the cowboys still have over 70 mill in cap space & a elite pass rush, you can’t compare the cowboy situation to ours, they’re pretty much set aside of a HC that team is loaded with talent. 

And Dak is going to take half of that and their top CB and WR are free agents this year also, on top of who all else they have to pay. That cap will be gone instantly. They also have young players due for contracts soon.

That 15m would look really nice for them.

Edited January 21, 2020 by TitanSS

[titans0021]

I’m still not sure how it would go over in the locker room, but I continue to think the $10M transition tag is such an obvious option for Henry. That number is fine, you let him explore his market value, and you work from there. I don’t think there’s any team that approaches Zeke money for a one-dimensional back. Obviously the risk of upsetting a locker room leader though.