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PapaShogun

SUPER BOWL LIV 49ers/Chiefs GAMEDAY thread

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38 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

Matt Maiocco's take on the Shanahan 4th quarter saga. I think this explains in detail why I more mad at what happened before halftime than in the 4th. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/what-kyle-shanahans-fourth-quarter-super-bowl-play-calling-should-tell-us?fbclid=IwAR28eeyehpd20usQmrVkOmWM4EueVIh3Pcd4z4--f4q__HqSHy2qQ2xq5QY

His play calling was not the issue. Such a lazy narrative. We just didn't make plays. And guess what? It happens that way sometimes. 

Definitely should get criticized for how he handled the last drive before halftime and not using his timeouts. Could get criticized for not being more aggressive on 4th and short situations. 

Aside from that we just didn't execute on both sides of the ball. KC outplayed us down the stretch and deserved the win. First time all season our offense sputtered in the 4th quarter when we needed them to put some drives together. 

NOT the first time our defense failed us. But I'm thinking lack of DL depth hurt there. 

All in all, we had a great shot at winning and it was a memorable season. So glad we got to enjoy a NFL season for the first time since 2013. Hell of a group that brought it damn near every single week. 

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4 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

Man this ******* sucks! Back at work today and everyone trying to console me is making me even angrier. Can't believe we botched this opportunity....fml

I feel you on this one. I had 12 missed calls after the game. Was annoying. Then everyone at work kept trying to talk to me about it too. It's only annoying because none of them know Jack about football

3 hours ago, PapaShogun said:

I felt like we lost the game there.

How can you say this and then not be upset with the kittle opi call? 

LETS ALL REMEMBER THAT WE WOULD HAVE SCORED POINTS AT THE END OF THE FIRST HALF IF THE REFS CALLED THAT PLAY LIKE THEY CALLED THE REST OF THE GAME.

So, despite Shanahan being conservative there, we still should have scored 

2 hours ago, Chrissooner49er said:

My wife had to point this out to me: Why didn't we use a time out in that last failed drive? Why not? It would have served to calm people down (thinking of Jimmy) and getting them focused rather than antsy. Sigh. I hate shoulda-woulda-couldas. :(

Yeah, I blame him more for the non timeout call on fourth than the end of the first half. When the playclock hit 1, timeout should have been called from the sideline 

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1 hour ago, Dub_City30 said:

What do we gotta do to win a Super Bowl? Next year I hope we go uo against every ****ty team in the playoffs and then hopefully play a weak *** team in the Super Bowl

The likelihood of us reaching the SB next year is slim if we're going by NFL history, particularly NFC history. Other than the Pats, I think Buffalo in the early 90's was the last team to lose the SB and then make it back the following year. 

I mean we could be different. We very much overacheived this year, so our SB window could have opened up a year premature. We had alot of young talent that contributed to the overall team success. Some played significant roles. You'd expect a majority of those players should develop and mature and perform better moving forward.  

BUT the fact remains...the numbers are stacked against us. Especially being a NFC team. I have faith in Lynch to continue to build the roster. Hopefully another SB failure will teach Shanny the importance of seizing the moment and finding that happy medium from being overly aggressive in one SB loss to being deathly conservative in another.

Ultimately though, I think next year rides on the arm of Jimmy G. I dont expect the defense to be as dominant. I think we'll still be very good. But I think a little regression should he expected. Top 10 still but maybe not Top 5.

So I feel Jimmy and the passing offense has to make up the slack. If we get the same Jimmy we got this year, I doubt we'll ever get back with him as the starter. Doesn't have to be a huge improvement. But he needs to really hone in and develop in certain areas.

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14 minutes ago, N4L said:

How can you say this and then not be upset with the kittle opi call? 

Because it shouldn't have come down to that in the first place. More plays should have been available regardless if Kittle makes that catch or not. Kittle makes the catch great. Now you only have time for a field goal when you could have had a TD opportunity. Can't do that really with 6 seconds remaining. 

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12 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

The likelihood of us reaching the SB next year is slim if we're going by NFL history, particularly NFC history. Other than the Pats, I think Buffalo in the early 90's was the last team to lose the SB and then make it back the following year. 

I mean we could be different. We very much overacheived this year, so our SB window could have opened up a year premature. We had alot of young talent that contributed to the overall team success. Some played significant roles. You'd expect a majority of those players should develop and mature and perform better moving forward.  

BUT the fact remains...the numbers are stacked against us. Especially being a NFC team. I have faith in Lynch to continue to build the roster. Hopefully another SB failure will teach Shanny the importance of seizing the moment and finding that happy medium from being overly aggressive in one SB loss to being deathly conservative in another.

Ultimately though, I think next year rides on the arm of Jimmy G. I dont expect the defense to be as dominant. I think we'll still be very good. But I think a little regression should he expected. Top 10 still but maybe not Top 5.

So I feel Jimmy and the passing offense has to make up the slack. If we get the same Jimmy we got this year, I doubt we'll ever get back with him as the starter. Doesn't have to be a huge improvement. But he needs to really hone in and develop in certain areas.

I told myself the same thing if he can improve we can a ring if not just a good football no ring

Edited by Dub_City30

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I'm unhappy.

Still love this team.

In need of cuddles.

Blah.

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1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

His play calling was not the issue. Such a lazy narrative. We just didn't make plays. And guess what? It happens that way sometimes. 

Definitely should get criticized for how he handled the last drive before halftime and not using his timeouts. Could get criticized for not being more aggressive on 4th and short situations. 

Aside from that we just didn't execute on both sides of the ball. KC outplayed us down the stretch and deserved the win. First time all season our offense sputtered in the 4th quarter when we needed them to put some drives together. 

NOT the first time our defense failed us. But I'm thinking lack of DL depth hurt there. 

All in all, we had a great shot at winning and it was a memorable season. So glad we got to enjoy a NFL season for the first time since 2013. Hell of a group that brought it damn near every single week. 

This is exactly how I feel. These games are won and lost with execution. Down the stretch, the Chiefs executed better. For 3 1/2 quarters the game plan was working perfectly. People have to place blame, but the reality of it all is that execution wins and loses games.

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50 minutes ago, rudyZ said:

I'm unhappy.

Still love this team.

In need of cuddles.

Blah.

Hugs your way, you loveable Canuck!  I get it. I'm there too. :/

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4 hours ago, PapaShogun said:

Because it shouldn't have come down to that in the first place. More plays should have been available regardless if Kittle makes that catch or not. Kittle makes the catch great. Now you only have time for a field goal when you could have had a TD opportunity. Can't do that really with 6 seconds remaining. 

Ok, but FG vs TD isnt the conversation. It's no score vs score. If that flag isn't thrown we score. If we score then no one is *****ing about the lack of timeout in that spot. It's really that simple. 

We should have scored before the half, I think we all agree 

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22 minutes ago, N4L said:

Ok, but FG vs TD isnt the conversation. It's no score vs score. If that flag isn't thrown we score. If we score then no one is *****ing about the lack of timeout in that spot. It's really that simple. 

We should have scored before the half, I think we all agree 

I dont care if Kittle still catches the pass and we manage a FG. 23 points still doesn't win us that game.

Its the mindset. The fact that Shanny was content being tied at half reeks of inferiority and lack of confidence in his own team. Spin it however you want, that's what I took from it. The same guy who justified trying to win against the Hawks in OT instead of running out the clock, playing for the tie and not giving Wilson back the ball by saying his players deserved a chance to win the game, can't then turn around and try to sell me that he thought he was in a great spot, tied with one of the better offenses in the league, with 1:45 left on the clock in first half of the SB and all his timeouts. I'm not buying what Shanny is selling. It was the wrong move, regardless of what happened after he decided to bleed the clock. He let Mahomes and that offense spook him into being nervous about his own damn offense when he had no reason to. 

Edited by 757-NINER

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29 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

I dont care if Kittle still catches the pass and we manage a FG. 23 points still doesn't win us that game.

23 points means we are down 1 with 2:44 instead of down 4. I think in that scenario where we have the ball at mid field we run the ball at least once or twice to try and kick a FG as time expires, rather than passing 4 times in a row. 

It does change the strategy on the last drive, which could potentially change the outcome of the game. 

It also could have potentially allowed us to go for it on 4th and 2 from the KC 24 yard line to start the third. THAT would have changed the game 100% had to kick the fg on the first drive of the 3rd to take the lead after a nice drive, but if we already had the lead? we might have gone for it. 

38 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Its the mindset. The fact that Shanny was content being tied at half reeks of inferiority and lack of confidence in his own team. Spin it however you want, that's what I took from it. The same guy who justified trying to win against the Hawks in OT instead of running out the clock, playing for the tie and not giving Wilson back the ball by saying his players deserved a chance to win the game, can't then turn around and try to sell me that he thought he was in a great spot, tied with one of the better offenses in the league, with 1:45 left on the clock in first half of the SB and all his timeouts. I'm not buying what Shanny is selling. It was the wrong move, regardless of what happened after he decided to bleed the clock. He let Mahomes and that offense spook him into being nervous about his own damn offense when he had no reason to. 

I thought about bringing up the seattle game. people are simultaneously complaining that kyle was too conservative for not calling a TO at the end of the first half and that he didn't run the ball enough. its asinine. He was too aggressive and somehow too conservative all in the same breath. 

People are too result based. We didn't score on that drive so therefore not calling a TO was wrong. it didn't work out, but only because we had an inconsistent flag called. People see the result of kyle throwing the ball three times in OT against seattle and say that was wrong. should have taken knees by your estimation I guess. If we won that game, would you have said throwing the ball was the wrong move? NO. Only because it didn't work out do you claim it was the wrong strategy. News flash - that seattle strategy literally had no effect on our season because we still ended up with the friggen 1 seed. 

Look at the NFCCG. packers got the ball back at the end of the first half and tried to score. Rodgers threw a pick, we scored another TD and essentially ended the game. A little different given the fact we were already up big compared to being tied, but still, he wanted to mitigate risk and not have a dumb turnover. I understand that line of reasoning considering we were going to get the ball back to start the third. its not like we didn't take timeouts and then took knees, we DID TRY TO SCORE ON THE DRIVE. let me repeat, WE DID TRY TO SCORE ON THE DRIVE and would have if it wasn't for a super inconsistent, arbitrary flag

 

Im much much much more upset we didn't call TO on 4th down with the game on the line. made no sense. especially when the playclock was at 1. kyle needs to call that TO in that spot. THAT is what cost us the game, along with chris jones batted passes, and jimmy throwing short of the sticks instead of to a wide open kittle

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11 minutes ago, N4L said:

23 points means we are down 1 with 2:44 instead of down 4. I think in that scenario where we have the ball at mid field we run the ball at least once or twice to try and kick a FG as time expires, rather than passing 4 times in a row. 

It does change the strategy on the last drive, which could potentially change the outcome of the game. 

It also could have potentially allowed us to go for it on 4th and 2 from the KC 24 yard line to start the third. THAT would have changed the game 100% had to kick the fg on the first drive of the 3rd to take the lead after a nice drive, but if we already had the lead? we might have gone for it. 

I thought about bringing up the seattle game. people are simultaneously complaining that kyle was too conservative for not calling a TO at the end of the first half and that he didn't run the ball enough. its asinine. He was too aggressive and somehow too conservative all in the same breath. 

People are too result based. We didn't score on that drive so therefore not calling a TO was wrong. it didn't work out, but only because we had an inconsistent flag called. People see the result of kyle throwing the ball three times in OT against seattle and say that was wrong. should have taken knees by your estimation I guess. If we won that game, would you have said throwing the ball was the wrong move? NO. Only because it didn't work out do you claim it was the wrong strategy. News flash - that seattle strategy literally had no effect on our season because we still ended up with the friggen 1 seed. 

Look at the NFCCG. packers got the ball back at the end of the first half and tried to score. Rodgers threw a pick, we scored another TD and essentially ended the game. A little different given the fact we were already up big compared to being tied, but still, he wanted to mitigate risk and not have a dumb turnover. I understand that line of reasoning considering we were going to get the ball back to start the third. its not like we didn't take timeouts and then took knees, we DID TRY TO SCORE ON THE DRIVE. let me repeat, WE DID TRY TO SCORE ON THE DRIVE and would have if it wasn't for a super inconsistent, arbitrary flag

 

Im much much much more upset we didn't call TO on 4th down with the game on the line. made no sense. especially when the playclock was at 1. kyle needs to call that TO in that spot. THAT is what cost us the game, along with chris jones batted passes, and jimmy throwing short of the sticks instead of to a wide open kittle

 

Noooooo....we didn't try to score.

Let me repeat.....WE DID NOT TRY TO SCORE. 

We ran the ball on 1st and 2nd down after we let the Chiefs run off 40 seconds on the punt....without using a single timeout.

Shanny only dialed up a pass after KC called a timeout after a minimal gain on our 2nd down run. If Reid doesn't call a timeout there you really believe we try and convert that 3rd down through the air? He decided to pass only when he felt he had to because as we all know by now he didn't want to give Mahomes the ball back with time on the clock. 

It was only after Reid showed that HE wanted to give the ball back to his offense, that Shanny decided to dial up a pass play. Us scoring was not his intial intent. He said as much after the game. His actions tell us this. If scoring were his original intent, he would have sequenced those playcalls totally different. 

Even if we would have won, I would have had called him out on his decision-making at that moment. The outcome just magnified the error. STILL a huge error in my eyes nonetheless....

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1 hour ago, N4L said:

Ok, but FG vs TD isnt the conversation. It's no score vs score. If that flag isn't thrown we score. If we score then no one is *****ing about the lack of timeout in that spot. It's really that simple. 

We should have scored before the half, I think we all agree 

FG vs TD is the conversation we should be having. That's the problem. 

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Not sure if anyone saw this reaction from Steve Young. You can tell he felt it big time. He's a 9ers forever and I'm sure that loss to KC in 94 still pains him. Hell, it pains me...in fact everything about KC right now pains me...lol. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, PapaShogun said:

FG vs TD is the conversation we should be having. That's the problem. 

FG vs TD is the conversation we should be having about the first drive of the third quarter, not the last drive of the second half. No one would have complained about kicking a FG there. But being up three (had the flag not been thrown) instead of being tied, forced kyle to kick the FG on the first drive of the third quarter. Kyle would have actually been able to choose to go for it, potentially getting up 10 instead of being up 3 at that point. That is huge. 

Even if we kick the FG there on the first drive of the third quarter, then we would have potentially been down 1 on the final drive and who knows how things would have been different. 

1 hour ago, 757-NINER said:

 

Noooooo....we didn't try to score.

Let me repeat.....WE DID NOT TRY TO SCORE. 

We ran the ball on 1st and 2nd down after we let the Chiefs run off 40 seconds on the punt....without using a single timeout.

Shanny only dialed up a pass after KC called a timeout after a minimal gain on our 2nd down run. If Reid doesn't call a timeout there you really believe we try and convert that 3rd down through the air? He decided to pass only when he felt he had to because as we all know by now he didn't want to give Mahomes the ball back with time on the clock. 

It was only after Reid showed that HE wanted to give the ball back to his offense, that Shanny decided to dial up a pass play. Us scoring was not his intial intent. He said as much after the game. His actions tell us this. If scoring were his original intent, he would have sequenced those playcalls totally different. 

Even if we would have won, I would have had called him out on his decision-making at that moment. The outcome just magnified the error. STILL a huge error in my eyes nonetheless....

Im sorry, but I don't view this as accurate. The plan was to wind the clock, then once we were assured that KC wouldn't have much time left (if any) we got aggressive. The TO from KC had no change in that strategy. 

Primary goal -> run the clock down and ensure that we had the ball twice before mahomes touched it once

Secondary goal -> score points

While it wasn't the primary goal of the drive, we DID try and score. It WAS one of the goals of the drive, albeit a secondary one, else we wouldn't have thrown a 40 yard pass. 

Again, if the Kittle play was called in the same manner they called (or didn't call) #35 on the chiefs with 4 minutes left in the third when he blatantly interfered with sanders, then no one would be complaining about kyle not calling a TO there. But because it didn't work and we ran out of time, then it means it was the wrong move. 

 

Im pretty upset about this loss, and I know you are too. It sucks for sure. I personally would have taken a TO when the chiefs were forced to punt, but I understand the reasoning behind it and I don't view it as the reason we lost. I view not scoring on the drive one of the handful of reasons we lost. The reason we didn't score on the drive was because of a flag that was thrown that wasn't consistent with how the rest of the game was called by the officials.

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