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2020 Off-season Discussion Thread


squire12

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49 minutes ago, DWhitehurst said:

Listening to Bukowski, he suggests the gap is not that big between the Packers and 49ers. I'm not so optimistic, but he suggests we just need a good ILB and a good playmaker on offense. Agree with him, or disagree?

The Packers certainly need at least one good ILB and a good playmaker or 2 or 3 on offense. 

They also need 1 or 2 defensive linemen.

While the CURRENT gap between SF & GB is indeed significant, losses like yesterday can really have a lasting negative impact on even top flight rosters.

Going to be an interesting offseason in the Bay Area.

And there is going to be quite a bit of pressure on Shanahan and Garoppolo during the 2020 season in the very, very competitive NFC West division.

If Gute gets work fixing the remaining, glaring roster holes, the Pack could bypass SF next season.

 

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This I got from an article about Agholor:

PFF

2019: 124th out of 124
2018: 74th out of 108
2017: 35th out of 107
2016: 103rd out of 104
2015: 101st out of 101

Football Outsiders

2019: 66th out of 66
2018: 78th out of 84
2017: 32nd out of 86
2016: 88th out of 94
2015: 83rd out of 88

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2019/11/19/20972456/nelson-agholor-worst-wide-receiver-nfl-week-11-eagles-pro-football-focus-pff-bench-cut-stats-grades

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3 minutes ago, Brit Pack said:

This I got from an article about Agholor:

PFF

2019: 124th out of 124
2018: 74th out of 108
2017: 35th out of 107
2016: 103rd out of 104
2015: 101st out of 101

Football Outsiders

2019: 66th out of 66
2018: 78th out of 84
2017: 32nd out of 86
2016: 88th out of 94
2015: 83rd out of 88

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2019/11/19/20972456/nelson-agholor-worst-wide-receiver-nfl-week-11-eagles-pro-football-focus-pff-bench-cut-stats-grades

Yikes.  I might be wrong.  Or it could be his situation.  

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One guy I'm hoping the Packers don't buy into is Jordan Phillips. He had 9.5 sacks but if you look deeper, he only had about 25 pressures. In other words, he had a Kyler Fackrell year. Phillips was pretty pedestrian before 2019 and I'm guessing he'll return to that level after someone pays him.  

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20 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

Yeah, I hate the whole "he sucks" thing with Agholor.  He doesn't suck.  He's very upset with Philadelphia, and I think he would do well here.  I think the same thing with Xavier Rhodes. 

What a player is is not what they have to be or always will be.  Micah Hyde, Casey Heyward and a bunch of other examples leaving the Packers ought to be proof enough of that. 

Nobody is expecting him to be a 100/1100/10 guy.  He's absolutely capable of being a 50/600/8 guy though.  Add that to our offense and our offense is better.  We cannot go into 2020 with Adams/MVS/Lazard/1st or second round rookie.

 

Micah Hyde and Casey Heywood were good and ( importantly) young with Green Bay. Heyward was a hell of a play maker but had chronic hammy issues on the bench and that's why GB let him go. Rhodes's physical abilities are clearly waning (30 years old next season).

Agholor dosen't suck, but he's not that good either. I'd rather spend some more coin to get better value. I think you can draft another Agholor or one of guys you have on the roster can produce similar to what he can. Packers need another true #1/#2 WR not another #3/#4.

Edited by Arthur Penske
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20 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

Yeah, I hate the whole "he sucks" thing with Agholor.  He doesn't suck.  He's very upset with Philadelphia, and I think he would do well here.  I think the same thing with Xavier Rhodes. 

What a player is is not what they have to be or always will be.  Micah Hyde, Casey Heyward and a bunch of other examples leaving the Packers ought to be proof enough of that. 

Nobody is expecting him to be a 100/1100/10 guy.  He's absolutely capable of being a 50/600/8 guy though.  Add that to our offense and our offense is better.  We cannot go into 2020 with Adams/MVS/Lazard/1st or second round rookie.

 

I have no clue what Agholor is going to get, but I have my suspicions it will look like Adam Humphries. That's a tough contract to give. 4/$36m with $19m gtd

Unless he feels like he can bet on himself on a 1 year deal, but I don't see why he would

Edited by JBURGE
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1 hour ago, packfanfb said:

One guy I'm hoping the Packers don't buy into is Jordan Phillips. He had 9.5 sacks but if you look deeper, he only had about 25 pressures. In other words, he had a Kyler Fackrell year. Phillips was pretty pedestrian before 2019 and I'm guessing he'll return to that level after someone pays him.  

He had 5 hurries/5 knockdowns/9.5 sacks

That's not a Kyler Fackrell year: 6 hurries/1 knockdown/10.5 sacks

Clark had 8 hurries/0 knockdowns/6 sacks, are his numbers also inflated?

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1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

He had 5 hurries/5 knockdowns/9.5 sacks

That's not a Kyler Fackrell year: 6 hurries/1 knockdown/10.5 sacks

Clark had 8 hurries/0 knockdowns/6 sacks, are his numbers also inflated?

How many pressures did Clark have? Also was Phillips facing the double teams Clark faced on a consistent basis? Phillips never had more than 2 sacks in a year prior to this year. He just had 9.5 with otherwise pedestrian numbers. I'd be questioning that. 

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18 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

How many pressures did Clark have? Also was Phillips facing the double teams Clark faced on a consistent basis? Phillips never had more than 2 sacks in a year prior to this year. He just had 9.5 with otherwise pedestrian numbers. I'd be questioning that. 

8

Yes

Not saying you can't question it, just pointing out that the argument of "the pressures don't match the sack production" doesn't fly. 

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17 hours ago, Brit Pack said:

This I got from an article about Agholor:

PFF

2019: 124th out of 124
2018: 74th out of 108
2017: 35th out of 107
2016: 103rd out of 104
2015: 101st out of 101

Football Outsiders

2019: 66th out of 66
2018: 78th out of 84
2017: 32nd out of 86
2016: 88th out of 94
2015: 83rd out of 88

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2019/11/19/20972456/nelson-agholor-worst-wide-receiver-nfl-week-11-eagles-pro-football-focus-pff-bench-cut-stats-grades

More proof that HE SUCKS!!! It's sad that some of you want to make excuses for him too. Oh it's his situation or oh he's unhappy. Some of y'all forget I actually live in Pennsylvania and I get the Iggles games. I've seen plenty from him; he's a shorter, faster Geronimo Allison with crappier hands. HE SUCKS!!! END OF CONVERSATION!!!

 

17 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Or that the 70th best WR is an average #3 WR

We're looking for WR2.

 

1 hour ago, packfanfb said:

One guy I'm hoping the Packers don't buy into is Jordan Phillips. He had 9.5 sacks but if you look deeper, he only had about 25 pressures. In other words, he had a Kyler Fackrell year. Phillips was pretty pedestrian before 2019 and I'm guessing he'll return to that level after someone pays him.  

Someone will: his current team. They're not letting him go; he's too important for their system.

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