packfanfb Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 21 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: You're not answering the question of why you think he's going to be good at ILB. I can sorta see the argument that the plus 3rd down value may appease some of the risk of the position change, but that's still not answering the question of why you think he's going to be a good first and second down inside linebacker. I think I have. Given the lack of time he's spent inside in college, you have to go off his traits. Good strength (24 reps) plus size to hold up in the middle. Certainly experience with taking on blocks, hand punching, shedding on the outside whether he's rushing or holding the edge in the run game in college. Those traits translate inside. Football IQ, not a lot of wasted movement from what limited I've seen of him (I'm not a UW football guy). More than anything, for the same reason I brought up a Van Noy comp earlier, he needs the right fit, meaning not pigeon-holing him to a "position" necessarily. He's the guy you've moving around on the football field and he's athletic enough to do that. I think the guy's going to be a football player, I really don't care about labeling him as an "ILB" the minute he's drafted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 54 minutes ago, MantyWrestler said: I’ve been liking both sides of this argument. I really like Baun and His versatility and think you can see from his play on the field and what they asked him to do that it translates well to ILB. I also think you sell his headiness short and his game has improved since that BYU game. I’ll trust you on that instead of looking it up. I also totally agree with AG about his value to us vs other teams at 30. Maaybe, at 60 but for us, anything after the 2nd round and I’m all in on him as I feel he’s a good tackler, diagnoses better than AG feels and offers coverage skills and pass rich skills that are better coming out than Martinez. like I said, I really like the player but AG is right, not at 30 and for me, not at 60 either. I feel like I'm being overly critical of him here. I'm not saying that he can't make these reads, I just don't know how anyone has an opinion on it. Short of concluding that every ILB from Wisconsin is good at this (which is a fair enough argument) so Baun will be also, I don't see how the conclusion gets drawn. This isn't like rushing the passer where you can look at athletic traits and a motor at other spots and kinda sorta project it. Guys either have those instincts and that read and react, see it and hit it, ability to diagnose or they don't. The 4.5 guys are nice, but that doesn't mean anything if the eyes aren't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 34 minutes ago, packfanfb said: I think I have. Given the lack of time he's spent inside in college, you have to go off his traits. Good strength (24 reps) plus size to hold up in the middle. Certainly experience with taking on blocks, hand punching, shedding on the outside whether he's rushing or holding the edge in the run game in college. Those traits translate inside. Football IQ, not a lot of wasted movement from what limited I've seen of him (I'm not a UW football guy). More than anything, for the same reason I brought up a Van Noy comp earlier, he needs the right fit, meaning not pigeon-holing him to a "position" necessarily. He's the guy you've moving around on the football field and he's athletic enough to do that. I think the guy's going to be a football player, I really don't care about labeling him as an "ILB" the minute he's drafted. Where are you seeing these traits? Bench press is a worthless measure of strength. He's 6'2 sub 240. That's not plus size. He's a pure weak side speed rusher. There's been almost no anchor or shed ability on display. What football IQ? He's an edge rusher. How is a guy playing a non premium who needs the right fit a first round pick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 37 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Where are you seeing these traits? Bench press is a worthless measure of strength. He's 6'2 sub 240. That's not plus size. He's a pure weak side speed rusher. There's been almost no anchor or shed ability on display. What football IQ? He's an edge rusher. How is a guy playing a non premium who needs the right fit a first round pick? Been plenty of players taken for exactly what you are wondering in the 1st round. Not agreeing or disagreeing on the thoughts ... just saying it only takes 1 team to fall in love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, coachbuns said: Been plenty of players taken for exactly what you are wondering in the 1st round. Not agreeing or disagreeing on the thoughts ... just saying it only takes 1 team to fall in love. Which college edge rushers expected to play ILB were drafted in the first round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Which college edge rushers expected to play ILB were drafted in the first round? Not talking specifically edge rushers to be ILB ... just talking general overall ... just takes 1 team to fall in love with a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Just now, coachbuns said: Not talking specifically edge rushers to be ILB ... just talking general overall ... just takes 1 team to fall in love with a player. This is the "it worked in Madden" of justifying bad draft opinions. What elite trait is Baun showing that's going to make a team fall in love with him at ILB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Not sure I buy this or anything being talked about right now, but he is the only ILB I'd be willing to spend $10m+/year on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I feel like I'm being overly critical of him here. I'm not saying that he can't make these reads, I just don't know how anyone has an opinion on it. Short of concluding that every ILB from Wisconsin is good at this (which is a fair enough argument) so Baun will be also, I don't see how the conclusion gets drawn. This isn't like rushing the passer where you can look at athletic traits and a motor at other spots and kinda sorta project it. Guys either have those instincts and that read and react, see it and hit it, ability to diagnose or they don't. The 4.5 guys are nice, but that doesn't mean anything if the eyes aren't there. I totally get that. I just watched a lot of Badger games this year and he, more than most any other OLB at Wisconsin, was used off ball more and in coverage. Playing back where the ILB does may help a transition for him. i feel these are irrelevant arguments as another team will value him as an OLB before we would as a versatile ILB/OLB hybrid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 3 hours ago, packfanfb said: Not sure I buy this or anything being talked about right now, but he is the only ILB I'd be willing to spend $10m+/year on. Packers are being used by all the agents with ILB clients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 7 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Has he at any point ever stated a utilization of RAS? The Packers have to have a much better athletic metrics score. RAS is really mediocre, especially when it comes to the extremes, it also really underrates length. Good athletes post good RAS scores, bad athletes post bad RAS scores. The simplicity of RAS is why it is great. Not all analytics need to require a 4 year degree to understand. Even if the Packers use something else, pretty safe to assume a guy that scores high in RAS will also score high in their metric and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 (edited) If your composite athletics metric doesn't give high marks to the people who are good athletes, your composite athletics metric is a bad one. Ceteris paribus, it's better to draft good athletes. Edited March 2, 2020 by PossibleCabbage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaRisMa Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 10 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Speed rushes, backside chasedowns, inside slants against Tight Ends, interior rushes out of the pressure packages, curl to flat zones. That's the Zach Baun highlight reel. And don't get me wrong, that's a skillset that somebody can use. And it might even be a first round skillset in the right fit. This isn't the right fit. And it would be one thing if there was some super high ceiling that could be pointed to in order to make the argument that gambling on a position change makes sense. But what is that ceiling? He's not freakishly athletic. He doesn't have tremendous college production demonstrating the skills that we're looking for in that spot? Taking an ILB in the first round is tough enough. Taking an ILB in the first round who doesn't have elite athleticism is bad. Then we're talking, taking an ILB without elite athleticism, and we have almost no film of him executing the primary roles of that position. It's just a bad team/player fit. I’d take him at 60. Need a 4th pass rusher. Someone will take him for his pass rush value way earlier than his “if we move him inside” value. He won’t be a Packer. It’s okay, Badger fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 I haven't really looked much at defense for the draft yet but I'd like to see3 a practical off-season like this on offense. FA Eric Ebron Joe Haeg (Re-sign Veldheer if possible/willing) Tajae Sharpe Sign 1 of non-tendered/or origninal round tender RFAs-> Tim Patrick/David Moore/Keelan Cole and then... Draft DPJ Lucas Niang Robert Hunt Lynn Bowden Jacob Breeland Reggie Corbin That would completely rework the offense/improve depth and we could still spend our 1st RD pick on D (and 4 picks total on Defense, assuming no trades). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 (edited) Moved to the Draft thread. Edited March 2, 2020 by Leader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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