soulman Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 minute ago, AZBearsFan said: I think Mingo is a 4-phase ST signing more than anything. He’s played 275+ ST snaps each of the past 5 seasons. I think for the most part these last three additions are as much about ST as they are about competition and depth. All three seem to have better ST credential than they do otherwise. That's fine with me. Our coverage teams have not been that good. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 minute ago, soulman said: I think for the most part these last three additions are as much about ST as they are about competition and depth. All three seem to have better ST credential than they do otherwise. That's fine with me. Our coverage teams have not been that good. And opening up options on draft day. I’ll be surprised if we don’t have a startable RG on the roster in the next few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: And opening up options on draft day. I’ll be surprised if we don’t have a startable RG on the roster in the next few days. If Pace and Laine can either get an extension for ARob done or restructure someone else it's possible but that cap tank is getting pretty dry as far as finding someone who might be any better than a 2nd round draftee. Who do you have in mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, soulman said: If Pace and Laine can either get an extension for ARob done or restructure someone else it's possible but that cap tank is getting pretty dry as far as finding someone who might be any better than a 2nd round draftee. Who do you have in mind? 2 guys available who were adequate starters in 2019 are Mike Person and Mike Iupati. I don’t know how well they fit with Juan Castillo or Nagy but if either was starting for us come week 1 I’d be pretty comfortable with that. Person was just released off of a 3/$8.25M contract extension he signed last year. Iupati played 2019 on a 1-year deal in Seattle for $2.75M. Financially that’s gotta be right in our target window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 48 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: 2 guys available who were adequate starters in 2019 are Mike Person and Mike Iupati. I don’t know how well they fit with Juan Castillo or Nagy but if either was starting for us come week 1 I’d be pretty comfortable with that. Person was just released off of a 3/$8.25M contract extension he signed last year. Iupati played 2019 on a 1-year deal in Seattle for $2.75M. Financially that’s gotta be right in our target window. What concerns me about Person is he's basically been a career backup more due to his versatility than his talent. He returns to SF and after one decent season they extend him but then release him this year replacing him with another well traveled backup level guy Tom Compton. Ya' gotta wonder if he's really any better as a starter than a top ranked rookie. With Iupati his availability may be an issue. Seems like he's been banged up a lot and if Seattle who always seem to be hurting for good OL let him walk rather than re-signing him why do we want to bring him in unless it's to compete for a roster spot for a vet minimum . I'm not sure either of these guys are gonna solve our problem at RG. I think it may be iffy at best. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 hours ago, soulman said: Dunno. Just reporting the numbers Spotrac is using. Probably closer to $3 mil for the two 2nd round picks and the rest won't hit the top 51 A ~3M cap hit in 2020, yes. But the money needed to sign all of the draft picks would only cost around 1.5M. That money still matters because now the top-55 players count against the cap in the off-season, via the new CBA, instead of the traditional top-53. However, when the season begins we get that money back to spend on possible injured replacements or during the 6 week trade. But yeah, the signing Mingo to a 887k guaranteed deal bumped that #163 draft pick spot down from #51 to #52 and essentially took it's place in the top-51, so right now the only draft picks that would count against the top-51cap would be the 2 second round picks. 5 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: I think we can and should extend Patterson too. Turning his deal into something like 3/10 with a signing bonus would let us knock his 2020 cap hit to like $2.5M. Patterson is tough for me. I would be reluctant on extending him for anything more than a year just because I don't think he offers much on the offensive side of the ball and paying a ST specialist already at 5M seems steep. Plus, given his age, I question how much longer he can be an asset to the team. But at the same time he does offer good stability as a returner (who is better than anyone else we have right now) and as a veteran WR in pinch (even if he isn't very good). I just don't want this to turn this into the same scenario that the Chiefs had with Dante hall is all. But, again, at the same time. I'm not even concerned about cap space for the next 2 years thanks to the new CBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) It's worth noting that Pace was able to fill three major positions of need; ILB, OLB, and TE with proven vets for just a little over $16 mil in 2020 cap cost. That's just a little more than Nick Foles or ARob are costing us for one position. Viewed from that perspective it's pretty good work provided it pans out and it's most definitely the kind of moves you make when you're in a win now mode. So again, from that perspective it all makes some sense. JMHO Edited March 23, 2020 by soulman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 22 minutes ago, soulman said: What concerns me about Person is he's basically been a career backup more due to his versatility than his talent. He returns to SF and after one decent season they extend him but then release him this year replacing him with another well traveled backup level guy Tom Compton. Ya' gotta wonder if he's really any better as a starter than a top ranked rookie. With Iupati his availability may be an issue. Seems like he's been banged up a lot and if Seattle who always seem to be hurting for good OL let him walk rather than re-signing him why do we want to bring him in unless it's to compete for a roster spot for a vet minimum . I'm not sure either of these guys are gonna solve our problem at RG. I think it may be iffy at best. Agreed. Especially Lupati. I think we can all agree that Carroll may have his flaws but he is one of the better talent evaluator's in the league and if he is willing to let go of him then that says alot to me,. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: A ~3M cap hit in 2020, yes. But the money needed to sign all of the draft picks would only cost around 1.5M. That money still matters because now the top-55 players count against the cap in the off-season, via the new CBA, instead of the traditional top-53. However, when the season begins we get that money back to spend on possible injured replacements or during the 6 week trade. But yeah, the signing Mingo to a 887k guaranteed deal bumped that #163 draft pick spot down from #51 to #52 and essentially took it's place in the top-51, so right now the only draft picks that would count against the top-51cap would be the 2 second round picks. That was my viewpoint on it as a response to AZ questioning $5 mil plus for the rookie pool. But it's only an educated guess. Even the top cap sites often have different numbers so it's tough for us to be even as accurate as they are. If we can get within $1-$2 mil were usually doing good. It's just that in previous years we've had far more cap to work with than we do now. Edited March 23, 2020 by soulman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 5 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: I think we can and should extend Patterson too. Turning his deal into something like 3/10 with a signing bonus would let us knock his 2020 cap hit to like $2.5M. I thought CP was our MVP last season ! He had the best season of anyone lmao I would love to lock him up for several yrs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 8 hours ago, soulman said: I think for the most part these last three additions are as much about ST as they are about competition and depth. All three seem to have better ST credential than they do otherwise. That's fine with me. Our coverage teams have not been that good. Does this mean with better coverage we can finally see that Pat actually does suck? 6 hours ago, SLCbear said: I thought CP was our MVP last season ! He had the best season of anyone lmao I would love to lock him up for several yrs That would have been Robinson, sir. No run game, no TE production, sporadic support from other WRs, an underperforming OL, and a QB with accuracy that may match a drunken Manziel and he still put up a damn good year? AROb was the MVP. We will give Patterson the ST MVP. Any way we can get a trophy named after Hester, I'm down. 6 hours ago, soulman said: It's worth noting that Pace was able to fill three major positions of need; ILB, OLB, and TE with proven vets for just a little over $16 mil in 2020 cap cost. That's just a little more than Nick Foles or ARob are costing us for one position. Viewed from that perspective it's pretty good work provided it pans out and it's most definitely the kind of moves you make when you're in a win now mode. So again, from that perspective it all makes some sense. JMHO Agreed. I've voiced my opinion on Foles but I see why they did it, they filled numerous holes and Graham at least raises the floor to an acceptable level and has the range to help Tru's erratic accuracy. Everyone always wants CLE's offseasons but never their ACTUAL seasons. lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Seriously? WTF is happening with my posts adding these emoticon things!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 13 minutes ago, Sugashane said: Does this mean with better coverage we can finally see that Pat actually does suck? That would have been Robinson, sir. No run game, no TE production, sporadic support from other WRs, an underperforming OL, and a QB with accuracy that may match a drunken Manziel and he still put up a damn good year? AROb was the MVP. We will give Patterson the ST MVP. Any way we can get a trophy named after Hester, I'm down. Agreed. I've voiced my opinion on Foles but I see why they did it, they filled numerous holes and Graham at least raises the floor to an acceptable level and has the range to help Tru's erratic accuracy. Everyone always wants CLE's offseasons but never their ACTUAL seasons. lol He an average punter and he's paid like an average punter. (16th out of 32). He could be replaced this year with $100k dead $$$ so the way we get a better punter is to bring in competition and I'm sure we will. Hell, on a list of stuff to worry about he's down around #12. Pace spent a total of roughly $31 mil in cap to fill four huge holes. ILB, OLB, TE, and QB. Tom Brady is getting that much from TB himself. Sure none of these guys are youth we can build around but that was never the objective. This was about patching the holes in our playoffs or bust tire that had a half dozen or more slow leaks. OLB and TE are most definitely upgrades from what we dealt with in 2019. ILB locked down our defensive QB and we signed nearly the perfect vet QB to push Mitch or take over if Mitch fails. Foles isn't a superstar but on this team, in this offense, with a coaching staff he's familiar with and they with him if Mitch slips even one iota he's gonna be the #2 quicker than you can say Bob's yer uncle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 26 minutes ago, Sugashane said: Seriously? WTF is happening with my posts adding these emoticon things!?!? Emoticons denied......please shelter in place and have your "I am not a bot" ID handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 6 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said: Agreed. Especially Lupati. I think we can all agree that Carroll may have his flaws but he is one of the better talent evaluator's in the league and if he is willing to let go of him then that says alot to me,. That’s a fair point re: Iupati, though while Carroll has been really good at talent evaluator he has been AWWWWWWWFUL at OL talent eval. I’m not sure whether that means Iupati is better than Carroll thinks or if he was done a year ago and brought back anyway. Seattle’s run game last year was 4th in rushing yards and 10th in ypc though. Wilson was a part of that but only a small part (342 yards). Chris Carson averaged 82 ypg and 4.4 ypc behind that line. I’d take that in a heartbeat if Iupati could bring part of that to Chicago. @soulman Person was a backup but has started 30 games + 3 postseason games the past 2 seasons. His grades are average in both pass and run blocking if you put stock into PFF (🤷♂️) and really for a guy who could start but also would be really good interior depth of beaten out by the presumptive draft pick that’s an ideal kind of FA add if you can’t afford to add at the top end of the market IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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