abstract_thought Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 1 hour ago, soulman said: And FWIW my $.02 is worth I don't believe Pace's job security is tied to Mitch's success or failure. The McCaskey's love him and in the overall scheme of things he's been a better GM than either Angelo or Emery although with the latter that ain't sayin' much. Has he though? Angelo was pretty successful in his time here and built several teams that accomplished more than any Bears team built by Pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, abstract_thought said: Has he though? Angelo was pretty successful in his time here and built several teams that accomplished more than any Bears team built by Pace. I think Angelo was underrated. Him vs Pace would be a toss up right now imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 52 minutes ago, abstract_thought said: Has he though? Angelo was pretty successful in his time here and built several teams that accomplished more than any Bears team built by Pace. Angelo was successful in building a team the made the Super Bowl and the NFC Championship Game both under Lovie. But he was hired in 2001 and the Super Bowl team didn't happen 'til 2005 5 years into his reign and 3 years into Lovie's. The NFCC game came in 2010 5 years later and 8 years into Lovie's reign. Pace began his era saddled with John Fox and a roster without a whole lot of talent compared to what we have now. Emery left him with an atrocious defense and not a whole lot more on offense but Cutler and 30 year old Matt Forte. So FWIW I'm giving Pace a pass for the entire time Fox was HC as far as their record goes. Fox was a major interference to a rookie GM and had pretty much mailed it in as far as his coaching career goes. The Bears gig was his golden parachute. Pace also didn't have a whole lot of cap initially to make bold moves with but he did begin to assemble some of the team we see now so FWIW I'm looking at where we are now and what happens over the next 2-3 years. Then I'll decide on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 27, 2020 Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 Angelo went to 3 playoff appearances, should have had a 4th if Cutler hadn't been injured. He had a Super Bowl appearance and another NFC Championship appearance. Pace has made the playoffs once and never won a playoff game. Angelo was here for 11 years. Pace is going to be here for 6 years this season. He had better get on winning here soon. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Angelo went to 3 playoff appearances, should have had a 4th if Cutler hadn't been injured. He had a Super Bowl appearance and another NFC Championship appearance. Pace has made the playoffs once and never won a playoff game. Angelo was here for 11 years. Pace is going to be here for 6 years this season. He had better get on winning here soon. Or what? You're gonna fire him? Or just light a bag of dog crap on this front door step and tee pee his car? Pace has actually been here 5 seasons. Three with John Faux and two with Matt Nagy. This one will be six and he wasn't the one who double doinked. That was Parkey. So.....are you always this unhappy Windy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, soulman said: Or what? You're gonna fire him? Or just light a bag of dog crap on this front door step and tee pee his car? Pace has actually been here 5 seasons. Three with John Faux and two with Matt Nagy. This one will be six and he wasn't the one who double doinked. That was Parkey. So.....are you always this unhappy Windy? No, but he was the one who gave him $16M and refused to bring in competition during the season while Parkey was up and down all year. Edited February 27, 2020 by beardown3231 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Romen Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 1 minute ago, beardown3231 said: No, but he was the one who gave him $16M and refused to bring in competition during the season while Parkey was up and down all year. Right. We can't just ignore Pace had been steadfast in his complacency with "his boys". When he makes a colossal mistake, he fixes it... Glennon, Wheaton, Demps. But when he has guys he sees potential in, he WILL NOT get rid of them or bring in mid-season competition... Sims, Parkey, Long, etc. Pace has been solid, has made a great locker room culture, added some great players and sometimes for really cheap... But he just hasn't put together winners, mostly due to his stubbornness and gambles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: No, but he was the one who gave him $16M and refused to bring in competition during the season while Parkey was up and down all year. Look, I didn't care much for Parkey either but the guy was a 90% + PK in Miami the year before so unless you expected Pace to be clairvoyant I don't know that we can hang this one on him 100%. I blame him far more for letting Fox talk him into releasing Robbie Gould and replacing him with Connor Barth. If that doesn't happen we never sign Parkey to begin with. Pace has had his share of misses along with his successes. They balance out more on the favorable side than the unfavorable IMHO. I'm not his agent or his PR guy but I think we at least need to be fair. I mean he's the same guy who also drafted Eddie Jackson and Nick Kwiatkoski in the 4th, signed ARob in FA, and pulled off the trade of the decade for Kahlil Mack so he's not a total bum right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 27, 2020 Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 Jason Liesner: Sun Times Despite very limited salary-cap space and a highly paid tight end already on their roster, a source said they are planning to make a run at Falcons two-time Pro Bowler Austin Hooper when free agency opens next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 51 minutes ago, soulman said: Look, I didn't care much for Parkey either but the guy was a 90% + PK in Miami the year before so unless you expected Pace to be clairvoyant I don't know that we can hang this one on him 100%. I blame him far more for letting Fox talk him into releasing Robbie Gould and replacing him with Connor Barth. If that doesn't happen we never sign Parkey to begin with. Pace has had his share of misses along with his successes. They balance out more on the favorable side than the unfavorable IMHO. I'm not his agent or his PR guy but I think we at least need to be fair. I mean he's the same guy who also drafted Eddie Jackson and Nick Kwiatkoski in the 4th, signed ARob in FA, and pulled off the trade of the decade for Kahlil Mack so he's not a total bum right? I highlighted one point of your post. I don't think Pace sucks horribly. I just don't think he's great. When you take a huge chance on the most important position in sports and you whiff, I can't think of the fact that he drafted Amos in round 5 or something. BTW, I had no issue with them getting rid of Gould. He had some big misses and the Giants ended up not keeping him, too. When Parkey missed against the Jets in 2018, they should've brought someone else in to compete. By that time he missed indoors (Arizona), outdoors in hot weather (Miami) and outdoors in rain (Jets in Chicago). He couldn't make anything consistently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, beardown3231 said: I highlighted one point of your post. I don't think Pace sucks horribly. I just don't think he's great. When you take a huge chance on the most important position in sports and you whiff, I can't think of the fact that he drafted Amos in round 5 or something. BTW, I had no issue with them getting rid of Gould. He had some big misses and the Giants ended up not keeping him, too. When Parkey missed against the Jets in 2018, they should've brought someone else in to compete. By that time he missed indoors (Arizona), outdoors in hot weather (Miami) and outdoors in rain (Jets in Chicago). He couldn't make anything consistently. And that's what it comes down to brother.....perceptions and perceptions aren't always reality. Is Mitch a complete whiff or are we just comparing him to Mahomes and saying well Pace phuc'd up when most everyone had Mitch ranked ahead of Mahomes anyway? I'll only agree to so far Mitch is a major disappointment and until I see how well he progresses in 2020 or doesn't progress at all I'm not ready to label him a bust just yet. Look at Tannehill. Six years of average or below average results in Miami and all of a sudden he takes his team to the AFCC game. I'm not advising we spend 6 years waiting to see if Mitch finally "gets it" and can lead his team deep into the playoffs or to a championship but I think we can wait out one last shot as long as we have a strong relief pitcher on the bench. How Pace handles this challenge will be another test where he can score and A or an F or somewhere in between. I don't want to get into the Parkey deal 'cause it's ancient history. We don't even know who else might have been available back in the fall of 2018 and no matter what we did we were stuck with Parkey's costs. I never liked his lack of consistency even from before we signed him but remember, he did make the first kick. It was the second one after the time out he blew. I'm not saying Pace isn't accountable for some of his mistakes but let he who is without any cast the first stone. Or has everyone here led a perfect God like existence? Not me that's for sure. PS; And the Giants couldn't afford to keep him despite that fact that he was 10-10 on FGs and 20-23 on XP. The bottom line is he's been a 90% + accurate PK ever since we let him go so if you would have been the GM who released him that would be a black mark against you as well. I'm sorry but releasing your top scorer and one of the most accurate PKs in NFL history was not a good move and I think even Pace would admit it was a mistake. Edited February 28, 2020 by soulman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 2 hours ago, beardown3231 said: That says high end backup to me (Dalton?) and not a walk-in replacement like Carr, Teddy, Tannehill or the HOFs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 2 hours ago, soulman said: Or what? You're gonna fire him? Or just light a bag of dog crap on this front door step and tee pee his car? Pace has actually been here 5 seasons. Three with John Faux and two with Matt Nagy. This one will be six and he wasn't the one who double doinked. That was Parkey. So.....are you always this unhappy Windy? We were comparing him to Jerry Angelo and Angelo’s résumé. He is going to have to start winning a lot to match what Angelo did as GM. He has 6 years to make a Super Bowl and an NFC Title game to match Angelo. So save me the snarky comments. The only thing that makes me unhappy is having to explain simple stuff to people on the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 Just now, WindyCity said: We were comparing him to Jerry Angelo and Angelo’s résumé. He is going to have to start winning a lot to match what Angelo did as GM. He has 6 years to make a Super Bowl and an NFC Title game to match Angelo. So save me the snarky comments. The only thing that makes me unhappy is having to explain simple stuff to people on the internet. Far be it for people to have opinions that differ from our own on a message board... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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