N4L Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, renndawg37 said: It's a horrible idea in my opinion. Leave it as it is. or just let guys run 5 yards on kickoffs where they are doing the onside within the last 4-5 minutes of the game. that way its back to the old onside kick rules in certain situations only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winitall Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 I like the idea. It’s fun. I think there will still be teams that just go with the traditional onside kick for the ‘surprise’ factor but I think this will make things more entertaining. I also think that overall this will be used very rarely, even when compared to historical onside kick numbers. With a traditional onside kick, you can run it down 7 with 2:20 to go and a time-out and still potentially get the ball back down 7 even if it doesn’t work. With this, if you fail, you are going to be down at least 10 if you get the ball back. The other team is automatically within chip shot range the second the pass is incomplete. The biggest question I would have is about offensive penalties. If there is a hold or OPI, do you have to run it back and it becomes 4th and 25 or can you take 10 yards off the kickoff and kick it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_is_the_best Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Sounds too gimmicky. Onside kicks are an extension of the natural flow of the game. This isn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Rider Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Yeah this is terrible, teams with bad defensive backs or lack of a pass rush would be at a heavy disadvantage. Good thing to owners declined it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 hours ago, N4L said: or just let guys run 5 yards on kickoffs where they are doing the onside within the last 4-5 minutes of the game. that way its back to the old onside kick rules in certain situations only Do XFL style, toss the ball downfield and let two guys sprint and recover it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) I'm in favor of basically anything that eliminates the kickoff, but allows for a team attempting to come back attempts a high risk play to retain possession. The kickoff is, without a doubt in my mind, the worst play in football. Edited January 21, 2020 by PossibleCabbage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INbengalfan Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 No thanks. can you imagine having a team with an extremely weak CB? Their team could lose time of possession 55:00-5:00. And the first time DPI continues a drive on a bad call people will go nuts, especially if it's against New Orleans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 7 hours ago, Manny/Patrick said: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28530361/nfl-experiment-alternative-onside-kick-pro-bowl love it Why? 4 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: This is a terrible idea if it extends beyond the Pro Bowl. It's a terrible idea if it doesn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) Onside kick pre-rule change had about a 12-20 percent chance of hitting IIRC (overall close to 15 percent). Now unless it’s ATL gadget kicker Koo it’s like 1 in 40. The league clearly wants to restore the hope that trailing teams might catch up. As long as 4th and 15 has similar odds of converting and it doesn’t allow more than possession at their own 40 with a conversion, I’m not sure I get the angst. If they allow any extra yardage beyond their own 40 / score to count on the play, I get the angst. But if they limit the conversion to start at their own 40 it seems to recreate the impact of the old onside kick. Without the safety issues. Now if they find this converts way higher than old onside kick conversions, then next year make it 4th and 20. I’m guessing the 4th and 15 was chosen because the conversion rates were similar. Edited January 21, 2020 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramxel Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Onside kick pre-rule change had about a 10 percent chance of hitting IIRC. Now unless it’s ATL gadget kicker Koo it’s like 1 in 50. The league clearly wants to restore the hope that trailing teams might catch up. As long as 4th and 15 has similar odds of converting and it doesn’t allow more than possession at their own 40 with a conversion, I’m not sure I get the angst. If they allow any extra yardage beyond their own 40 / score to count on the play, I get the angst. But if they limit the conversion to start at their own 40 it seems to recreate the impact of the old onside kick. Without the safety issues. Now if they find this converts way higher than old onside kick conversions, then next year make it 4th and 20. I’m guessing the 4th and 15 was chosen because the conversion rates were similar. I don't have the stats to back it up, but I feel that 4th and 15 is bellow 10 percent conversion rate. The sample size is probably small, but still... The problem I have with it is that, it's apparently a low conversion play, teams will be trying to fish for penalties like there's no tomorrow. Will a holding penalty result in a 1st down like a normal play? The biggest concern with rules and officiating is PI and the way they weren't reviewing it, and so far, I've seen no one talking about changes to it. Onsides are broken and need fixing, but there are more important things to discuss. Honesty this just feels like a smokescreen and it's bizarre they are announcing it when there's still 1 game left to play. Edited January 21, 2020 by kramxel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, kramxel said: I don't have the stats to back it up, but I feel that 4th and 15 is bellow 10 percent conversion rate. The sample size is probably small, but still... The problem I have with it is that, it's apparently a low conversion play, teams will be trying to fish for penalties like there's no tomorrow. Will a holding penalty result in a 1st down like a normal play? The biggest concern with rules and officiating is PI and the way they weren't reviewing it, and so far, I've seen no one talking about changes to it. Onsides are broken and need fixing, but there are more important things to discuss. Honesty this just feels like a smokescreen and it's bizarre they are annoinging when there's still 1 game left to play. Yeah I hear the concern. But if it’s 4th and 15 that’s easier to avoid. The TEN-KC 3rd and 17 where DB took DPI was clearly bad awareness. It’s still going to generate heat (as would illegal contact or roughing the passer, etc.). It’s also why I absolutely would push for a conversion only getting ball at own 40 - nothing more. It will be bad enough if a penalty leads to a conversion. The conversion to the 40 should be the best case scenario. Even then there will be critics. But it won’t impact win probability more than with a conversion the old way (onsides recovery). That’s a major revision that’s needed to the present idea. Edited January 21, 2020 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Broncofan said: Derek Carr would throw it away.....twice. I think the QB deserves some blame here. I could have made that play . btw, I never knew about this either, what a low point for the black hole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetzger Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Just bring back old onside kick rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGame316 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Just allow the drop kick and remove the fair catch aspect Punter pooches it way up high and everyone goes to catch it like it's a hail mary pass Make them line up exactly as they do now The reason they changed the original onside kick was because there were too many violent collisions when guys tried to pick up a bouncing ball as the lines ran into each other. The ball being airborne would eliminate most of that risk and it would become either a jump ball or a fumble scramble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramxel Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 9 hours ago, Broncofan said: Yeah I hear the concern. But if it’s 4th and 15 that’s easier to avoid. The TEN-KC 3rd and 17 where DB took DPI was clearly bad awareness. It’s still going to generate heat (as would illegal contact or roughing the passer, etc.). It’s also why I absolutely would push for a conversion only getting ball at own 40 - nothing more. It will be bad enough if a penalty leads to a conversion. The conversion to the 40 should be the best case scenario. Even then there will be critics. But it won’t impact win probability more than with a conversion the old way (onsides recovery). That’s a major revision that’s needed to the present idea. I like your idea of a convertion always leading to having the ball at their 40. It doesn't limit the play itself, as teams can be beat deep, but limits the random factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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