2020 Senior Bowl Discussion

[beardown3231]

11 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

 

I'm trying to rehash things that we've all read, seen and heard a thousand times? What? The only Bears message board I'm apart of is this one and as far as I remember, I'm the only one who has said this on here and this website is the only place I've seen this. I figure the everyday-joe Bears fan would disagree with me and instead wants them to take a QB in the 2nd round. I also haven't read anything relating to the philosophy I have discussed and I follow Haugh, Biggs, Wiederer, Campbell, and Jahns. Sure, there have been mock drafts without them taking a QB early but not for the reasons I specified, rather just because there are other needs (unless you're referring to the fact that Pace's eye for QB talent stinks, then yes, everyone knows that).

What reasons did I not think through? It seems like all of the reasons you said are the EXACT reasons I did, specifically the one where you said " this would happen only if the QB is bad" (which is EXACTLY what I said when I said "little to no promise").

As far as your last paragraph goes, doesn't that go without saying? Obviously if said QB shows promise, the new regime isn't going to launch him whether his mechanics are good or not. They'll see the raw talent and hope to fix the mechanics and make him more consistent. If said QB shows "little to no promise" but has great mechanics, the new regime isn't keeping him around.

Edited January 26, 2020 by beardown3231

[Heinz D.]

22 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

My biggest concern is what the Bears do if Trubisky has a middle of the road season like 2018. Pace clearly loves the guy. But once you pay him a 2nd contract, you really limit your cap flexibility to improve the quality of the roster.

I could live with 2018 Trubisky. I mean, basically. He'd have to improve somewhat, but at least 2018 Mitch was fairly consistent. (Fewer bizarre throws, fewer misses of open receivers, more rushing yards, etc.) 

4 hours ago, Epyon said:

Guys I'm interested in post Senior Bowl:

-The edge rusher who terrorized Hurts, Anae. Kid shoulda gotten MVP.... he beat on the Oregon OT who is highly rated, and and absolutely humiliated the Texas Tech OT.

-The TEs Brycen Hopkins and Trautmann... I honestly wouldn't be upset with both. The small school kid seems better though, he actually blocks well.

-Anthony Gordon-QB..... This is my guy from this draft class right now, if I had to pick a QB... He's not ready at all yet, but his issues are  at least (potentially) fixable..... He needs some mass (barely 200lbs and skinny legged), and his film showed a tendency to panic vs pressure (which I'm HOPING is more inexperience than cowardice)... but when in a rhythm, he seems to be able to execute well.. I think he can be a decent backup at least.  His arm isn't the best, but some of that is mechanical, via "armthrowing" rather than driving into throws with his legs/feet. One thing I do like about him (and a potential double edged sword) is he's seemingly fearless trying to push the ball down field and/or across the middle  (I think Mitch gets a bit too gunshy at times).  He's certainly a project, but I see more potential in him than I do in a guy like Herbert  or Love (who I think are more "set" into what they are as players), and he should be going in the rounds 3-5 range too vs the rounds 1-2 range (where I expect Herbert/Love).

Both the TEs did look good. I sort of disagree with your assessment of Herbert (I see potential but his regression last season is a real head-scratcher)  and TOTALLY disagree with you on Love (who I think may well turn out to be bonafide)...but the guy you're mainly talking about, Anthony Gordon, is intriguing. Also, IMO a lot of the panicky play you saw from Gordon was the result of a so-so line in a fairly strong conference. I wouldn't take him in the second (and it's looking like Pace isn't taking one in the second no matter what anyway), but he could last until the fourth...although maybe not all the way down to where the Bears are picking. They might have to move up a little to get him, but it would make sense.

1 hour ago, Steel Worker said:

I would love to see the Bears draft the Pass Rusher from Utah Anae, He would be a good compliment to Mack.

I think that with his performance yesterday, unless he absolutely blows chunks at the combine, he's going in the first. I know a lot of folks are gunshy about Pace making any more trades, but I'd love a move up to get that kid. 

[Trubiskytime]

On 1/25/2020 at 10:27 AM, G08 said:

You have to understand that Pace was very upfront with George and Ted when he said this was going to take time. He came into a literal ****-show in Chicago and had to gut not only the team but the building as well (coaches, trainers, hell even Halas Hall).

Pace took over in 2015, with a defense that just earned the honors as "Worst In Chicago Bears History". Fast forward 3 years and our defense was ranked #1 in the NFL.

Pace stripped down one of the oldest -- if not THE oldest -- rosters in the NFL and now has the following core pieces:

WR - Allen Robinson

OG - Cody Whitehair

OG - James Daniels (rated 5th at LG by PFF last season)

NT - Eddie Goldman

DE - Akiem Hicks

ILB - Roquan Smithh

OLB - Khalil Mack

FS - Eddie Jackson

That's solid talent with a handful of elite players. Clearly we need to do upgrade the talent level offensively, and I think we would be fools to not give Pace and Nagy every opportunity to succeed on that side of the ball. Nagy is here through 2022, Pace is here through 2021. Unless the team completely falls apart next season (I don't see that happening) I can't imagine Pace and Nagy being fired. I'm firmly of the opinion they should be given another shot at drafting a QB if Mitch fails... but I'm one of the few on this planet that think the kid has not yet hit his ceiling. Trubisky is the least experienced QB to ever be drafted in the first round of the NFL draft since the 1967 merger. That means something as much as some care to ignore it.
 To add... I expect to see significant resources added to the offensive side of the ball. This is both in FA capital and draft assets. Give MT10 every chance to succeed, and if he doesn't you should have solid talent on both sides of the ball for your rookie QB in 2021.

This whole post is excellent. I’m in full agreement. And the part I bolded is something I’ve been saying for a long time. It was very unrealistic to think Mitch was going to play at a high level right away. When they committed to draft him, this was understood within the organization, & they knew it would take time for his development. They desperately want him to succeed, and so do I. I’m a fan of MT and still believe in him, but obviously if the mental part of his game doesn’t improve, then we can’t wait forever. So what you said about giving him all the resources to succeed makes perfect sense. Then if he fails, you still have a solid nucleus for the next QB. But they can’t quit on him before knowing 100% that they gave him the best opportunity to succeed. There’s no question there’s still untapped potential with him. It’s just a matter of bringing that out. Hopefully with better OL play, rushing production, & a decent TE, Mitch could still be a winner. He’s not going to single-handedly put the whole team on his back like Watson or Mahomes, but he could still become a QB you could win a SB with.. We’re gonna find out soon. 

[beardown3231]

4 minutes ago, Trubiskytime said:

This whole post is excellent. I’m in full agreement. And the part I bolded is something I’ve been saying for a long time. It was very unrealistic to think Mitch was going to play at a high level right away. When they committed to draft him, this was understood within the organization, & they knew it would take time for his development. They desperately want him to succeed, and so do I. I’m a fan of MT and still believe in him, but obviously if the mental part of his game doesn’t improve, then we can’t wait forever. So what you said about giving him all the resources to succeed makes perfect sense. Then if he fails, you still have a solid nucleus for the next QB. But they can’t quit on him before knowing 100% that they gave him the best opportunity to succeed. There’s no question there’s still untapped potential with him. It’s just a matter of bringing that out. Hopefully with better OL play, rushing production, & a decent TE, Mitch could still be a winner. He’s not going to single-handedly put the whole team on his back like Watson or Mahomes, but he could still become a QB you could win a SB with.. We’re gonna find out soon. 

Ok so it was unrealistic to think Trubisky would play well right away. Is it unrealistic, however, to think he should play well 40 games in? If a lot of QB's had good OL's, receivers, TE's, etc they'd play a lot better too. It sounds like Cutler all over again.

[JAF-N72EX]

@beardown3231

Jesus christ dude. You still don't get it lol.

Here, let paint the scenario and show you how ridiculous this sounds. 

Pace drafts a QB in the 2nd round. Mitch gets benched mid-season during a game, say week 8 at the earliest. The rookie is named the starter for the remaining 7-8 games. The season is over and everyone gets fired. 

^^ You really think the new staff is going to just give up that easily on a former 2nd round QB based only on 7-8 games in a presumably lackluster offense? 

As I said, in order for that to happen the QB would have to be absolutely downright terrible. Or if the new regime had already graded the QB so low in pre-draft. 

Edited January 27, 2020 by JustAnotherFan

[Heinz D.]

12 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

@beardown3231

Jesus christ dude. You still don't get it lol.

Here, let paint the scenario and show you how ridiculous this sounds. 

Pace drafts a QB in the 2nd round. Mitch gets benched mid-season during a game, say week 8 at the earliest. The rookie is named the starter for the remaining 7-8 games. The season is over and everyone gets fired. 

^^ You really think the new staff is going to just give up that easily on a former 2nd round QB based only on 7-8 games in a presumably lackluster offense? 

As I said, in order for that to happen the QB would have to be absolutely downright terrible. Or if the new regime had already graded the QB so low in pre-draft. 

Yeah, they'd at least kick the tires on the new guy. And, at worst, he'd be a backup candidate, or trade fodder.

Probably isn't happening, though. Which sucks. I'd love for them to go FA for OL or OLB help, and take another shot at a young QB. But...you can wish in one hand, and @#$% in the other...

[G08]

On 1/25/2020 at 12:09 PM, RunningVaccs said:

You make a lot of good points except this one, unless there are some Brandon Marshall stories that I missed

I generally agree with you on Pace.  Regarding Mitchy, well,  I think we're going to get to see him get every chance, but I would be pleasantly shocked if he turns into anything here in Chicago

It was a really bad situation... horrible talent, toxic culture in the locker room (had to trade Marshall and Bennett for pennies, had to cut Jeremiah Ratliff because he, and I quote, said 'I am the devil' and 'felt like killing everybody in the building'). ****-show.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

22 minutes ago, G08 said:

It was a really bad situation... horrible talent, toxic culture in the locker room (had to trade Marshall and Bennett for pennies, had to cut Jeremiah Ratliff because he, and I quote, said 'I am the devil' and 'felt like killing everybody in the building'). ****-show.

I totally agree with you, though I had a slow day at work, got hung up on the word 'literal', and then had an easy time imagining Marshall doing a feces themed press conference.

[topwop1]

7 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Ok so it was unrealistic to think Trubisky would play well right away. Is it unrealistic, however, to think he should play well 40 games in? If a lot of QB's had good OL's, receivers, TE's, etc they'd play a lot better too. It sounds like Cutler all over again.

Except Cutler had way more experience as a starter in both college and the pros when people were making those excuses for him. 

[G08]

1 hour ago, RunningVaccs said:

I totally agree with you, though I had a slow day at work, got hung up on the word 'literal', and then had an easy time imagining Marshall doing a feces themed press conference.

Lol you've got me there my friend

[beardown3231]

13 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

@beardown3231

Jesus christ dude. You still don't get it lol.

Here, let paint the scenario and show you how ridiculous this sounds. 

Pace drafts a QB in the 2nd round. Mitch gets benched mid-season during a game, say week 8 at the earliest. The rookie is named the starter for the remaining 7-8 games. The season is over and everyone gets fired. 

^^ You really think the new staff is going to just give up that easily on a former 2nd round QB based only on 7-8 games in a presumably lackluster offense? 

As I said, in order for that to happen the QB would have to be absolutely downright terrible. Or if the new regime had already graded the QB so low in pre-draft. 

Give up on him? Like, release him as soon as the new league year begins? No, likely not. Will that scenario stop them from using 2021's #1 on a QB and therefore almost certainly make him trade bait and/or virtually giving him no chance at a future here? Probably

Do you get it now? We're literally saying the same thing, but as usual you come in looking for an argument

Edited January 27, 2020 by beardown3231

[WindyCity]

SiriusXMNFL

 

Brycen Hopkins: #Bears, #Colts , #Saints  kind of stood out to me (in terms of teams showing interest in him.)

[G08]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

SiriusXMNFL

 

Brycen Hopkins: #Bears, #Colts , #Saints  kind of stood out to me (in terms of teams showing interest in him.)

I love him as a U TE in this offense. Love him.

[WindyCity]

8 hours ago, G08 said:

I love him as a U TE in this offense. Love him.

He makes a ton of sense for the Bears who need a threat at TE.

 

[JAF-N72EX]

On 1/26/2020 at 9:41 PM, beardown3231 said:

Give up on him? Like, release him as soon as the new league year begins? No, likely not. Will that scenario stop them from using 2021's #1 on a QB and therefore almost certainly make him trade bait and/or virtually giving him no chance at a future here? Probably

Do you get it now? We're literally saying the same thing, but as usual you come in looking for an argument

Oh, Jesus. This is the last time I'm talking about this. 

1) I saw your original post before you edited it 12 hours later while I was working (which was different and you must have seen how contradictive it was--still is by the way. 
2) We are not saying the same thing, not even close. You just keep back peddling now and as usual, will not accept that your opinion is extremely flawed and someone called you out on it.  
3) I'm not looking for an argument. I'm simply disagreeing with your viewpoint and showing you how ridiculous it really is. 

There are certainly legitimate reasons to believe that drafting a QB this year would be a bad idea but your particular reason is definitely not one of them.