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DirtyDez

Derek Jeter and Larry Walker elected to HoF

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I don't understand HOF voting at all. Rivera is the only 100% in history? Whomever didn't vote for Ripken etc. should be banned from the game.

I've seen it said that Jeter is about the 12 best SS all-time. That seems fair. He should obviously be in, but he's certainly not at the level of some of the guys that (apparently) got fewer votes.

 

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2 minutes ago, nagahide13 said:

I don't understand HOF voting at all. Rivera is the only 100% in history? Whomever didn't vote for Ripken etc. should be banned from the game.

I've seen it said that Jeter is about the 12 best SS all-time. That seems fair. He should obviously be in, but he's certainly not at the level of some of the guys that (apparently) got fewer votes.

 

There were a bunch of geriatric morons who thought because Babe Ruth or Ted Williams or whoever didn't get 100%, no one should, so they'd purposefully never vote for a guy on his first ballot to make sure.

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46 minutes ago, RuskieTitan said:

This is why baseball and the HOF suck donkey butt. How the **** do you not vote Jeter in? Some blowhard was just trying to get attention. Whoever it was needs to lose their voting rights.

I don't know who or why this person didn't vote Jeter. I can 100% say that I wouldn't have, but not because I don't think he is a HoFer. I think he is a bit overrated but undoubetedly a HoFer. However, I think there are more than 10 players eligible that are hall of famers and therefore can't vote for all of them (dumb rule but it is what it is). I would have left off Jeter if for no other reason than he was clearly getting in anyway so I can use that vote on another player on my list

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I understand the outrage about the voting/voters and how they vote, but personally, I feel GREAT for Larry Walker, who I still maintain was criminally underrated in his career. Aside from his being the ALL TIME 15th OPS leader:

*He had a legendary '97 season (208 hits, .366 BA, 49 HR, 130 RBI, 33 SB, 1.172 OPS)

*Career .313 BA (79th All Time) with 383 HR, 1355 Runs, .400 OBP, 72.7 WAR

*He was snubbed from the ASG since he played in Montreal ('94 and '95 he had fantastic seasons)

*He had 7 Gold Gloves

IMO, he had a lot of bulk stats with an elite prime and was more than deserved/it's a shame he had to wait this long.

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35 minutes ago, mse326 said:

I would have left off Jeter if for no other reason than he was clearly getting in anyway so I can use that vote on another player on my list

This is a good point. I would think the guys you absolutely have to vote for are Walker, Schilling (gross), Bonds, Clemens, etc. all the way down to the guys who are getting like 20%. Basically anybody deserving with a chance of getting off the ballot to hopefully de-clog it a little bit.

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IMO if I had a ballot, and I don't care if people agree with me or not, I'm voting:

*Jeter

*Walker

*Bonds

*Schilling

*Clemons

*Vizquel

*Manny

...I'd consider Shef and Sosa...maybe could be talked into Jeff Kent for a positional value argument.

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1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

I don't care if people agree with me or not

Not finding 10 HoFers on this ballot is borderline criminal. You gotta come up with 3 more.

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Just now, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Not finding 10 HoFers on this ballot is borderline criminal. You gotta come up with 3 more.

 

2 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

...I'd consider Shef and Sosa...maybe could be talked into Jeff Kent for a positional value argument.

Also, Pettitte getting astronomically more votes than Lee is criminal and shows NY bias if you value WAR7 and JAWS.

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1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

 

Also, Pettitte getting astronomically more votes than Lee is criminal and shows NY bias if you value WAR7 and JAWS.

Scott Rolen, Todd Helton, Andruw Jones, and Andy Pettitte, are all slam dunk guys. Sheffield, Sosa, and Kent should all be in too, but you mentioned them. Giambi is borderline, and I think Cliff Lee is too. If you're a peak guy, they probably belong. If you're a longevity guy, probably not.

Basically whichever thing you value, there are definitely 10 guys who deserve it.

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41 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Scott Rolen, Todd Helton, Andruw Jones, and Andy Pettitte, are all slam dunk guys. Sheffield, Sosa, and Kent should all be in too, but you mentioned them. Giambi is borderline, and I think Cliff Lee is too. If you're a peak guy, they probably belong. If you're a longevity guy, probably not.

Basically whichever thing you value, there are definitely 10 guys who deserve it.

The disparity of votes between Lee and Pettite is egregious IMO. That's really my only point. I'm a huge Todd Helton fan, but I understand the flimsy-ish argument against him with the home/road Coors Factor splits.

Scott Rolen has positional value and defensive value to go with it.

Andruw Jones is meh for me personally, but that's probably my own Atlanta Braves fatigue based upon the era in which I grew up in. 

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1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

 

Also, Pettitte getting astronomically more votes than Lee is criminal and shows NY bias if you value WAR7 and JAWS.

Or people don’t have NY bias (which isn’t proven to be a thing in HOF voting) and he just had more counting stats.

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1 hour ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Scott Rolen, Todd Helton, Andruw Jones, and Andy Pettitte, are all slam dunk guys. Sheffield, Sosa, and Kent should all be in too, but you mentioned them. Giambi is borderline, and I think Cliff Lee is too. If you're a peak guy, they probably belong. If you're a longevity guy, probably not.

Basically whichever thing you value, there are definitely 10 guys who deserve it.

How is Pettitte a slam dunk candidate? He was a mid-rotation workhorse with only 2 truly elite years. He’s not all that different than Mark Buehrle.

Giambi and Sosa had short HOF-level peaks that were probably 50% roids.

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1 hour ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

This is a good point. I would think the guys you absolutely have to vote for are Walker, Schilling (gross), Bonds, Clemens, etc. all the way down to the guys who are getting like 20%. Basically anybody deserving with a chance of getting off the ballot to hopefully de-clog it a little bit.

Yup. But also ones that are in danger of falling off. I think Abreu is a hall of famer and was routinely underrated. Is he one of the top 10 that is eligible? No. But I'd have voted for him to ensure every chance he at least stayed on the ballot for future consideration (he just made it if anyone was wondering). Same goes for Giambi, who didn't stay on. I'd actually prioritize those guys over the ones in the middle who I know are safe but definitely not getting in, at least on this ballot.

I just hate when guys like Lofton and Kevin Brown are one and done. I can understand not thinking they are HoFers but they are so much better than people that have got in, let alone stay on the ballot. (I'd also include my most underrated player ever on this list - John Olerud)

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7 minutes ago, redsoxsuck05 said:

(which isn’t proven to be a thing in HOF voting)

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It's also not proven not to be.

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1 minute ago, redsoxsuck05 said:

How is Pettitte a slam dunk candidate? He was a mid-rotation workhorse with only 2 truly elite years. He’s not all that different than Mark Buehrle.

Giambi and Sosa had short HOF-level peaks that were probably 50% roids.

Bulk stats, tons of top 5 CYA, and he played on winning teams. I could see not including him, but the bar for SP is so stupid high right now that I'm fine taking guys with resumes that seem short as pitchers and letting them in.

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