lolsurebro Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 How would you dibby out the credit of a teams successful season? We can all agree that it's a collective effort, but if you were to dibby out a piece of the credit pie to each factor, what would it look like? 20% QB, 50% coaching, etc? Or perhaps it varies by team? Would the Patriots have been as successful with Brady without Belichick? Or vice versa? Did Mahomes drag his team to the superbowl this year, or was it because Reed gave him the pieces he needs? Who deserves more credit? If we look at the 49ers this year, how much of their success rests on Jimmy G? Did Eli Manning earn his two superbowl wins on merit of his own success at QB role, or was it his defense? How much of the Texans failures in the post-season, really rests on BoB's shoulders? Did Philip Rivers really keep the Chargers out of a superbowl victory, or perhaps it was more to blame the OC? I am interested to see what you guys think as far as who deserves the credit, and how much of it. You can use any team you like, but I wanna know how you dibby out the credit/blame and why. Maybe this is a dumb thread idea, I don't know. (Whoever quotes that and answers "It is" can meet me out back ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hukos Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) It's going to be based on your personal priors really. You can create any reasoning you want to support the narrative you've chosen. Thus, people generally jump on a narrative preemptively and then use facts to support that narrative. Edited January 30, 2020 by Hukos 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Bali Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Mainly recruitment and coaching. Also success is dependent on the city/franchise. Success for a lesser franchise like The Chiefs or The Bengals is vastly different from success at say New England, Steelers or the Packers. What the Chiefs are going thru now is unprecedented for the franchise, fan base and the entire dystopian landscape of Missouri. Hence the absolute jubilation and disbelief that they have a dog in the race on SB Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefs_5627 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 23 minutes ago, Dan_Bali said: Mainly recruitment and coaching. Also success is dependent on the city/franchise. Success for a lesser franchise like The Chiefs or The Bengals is vastly different from success at say New England, Steelers or the Packers. What the Chiefs are going thru now is unprecedented for the franchise, fan base and the entire dystopian landscape of Missouri. Hence the absolute jubilation and disbelief that they have a dog in the race on SB Sunday. Sad little fella you are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Bali Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, Chiefs_5627 said: Sad little fella you are. You ok big guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolts223 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 9 hours ago, lolsurebro said: Would the Patriots have been as successful with Brady without Belichick? Or vice versa? Take away either one and they are exponentially less successful. The reason the Patriots are the Patriots is because when you have the greatest QB and HC of all time teamed up for 20 years it puts you at such a significant advantage over every other team on a year to year basis. That isn't even to mention Belichick is among the best GM's at identifying talent, how he'll use it and managing the cap. 9 hours ago, lolsurebro said: Did Mahomes drag his team to the superbowl this year, or was it because Reed gave him the pieces he needs? Who deserves more credit? Mahomes probably wouldn't be what he is if he was drafted by the Bears or Texans. The Chiefs also have insane talent at the skill positions that almost no other team can come close to rivaling. 9 hours ago, lolsurebro said: If we look at the 49ers this year, how much of their success rests on Jimmy G? I think Jimmy certainly has done his part and is a good QB. The Niners also have a great d-line, great coaching, great o-line, great running game and arguably the best TE in the game. Jimmy is a piece of the puzzle, and a significant piece at that. 9 hours ago, lolsurebro said: Did Eli Manning earn his two superbowl wins on merit of his own success at QB role, or was it his defense? I think in 2011 Eli absolutely balled out and anyone who doesn't give him credit for that is merely a hater. As far as how the Eli Manning Giants won 2 SB's? Great coaching by Coughlin, getting hot at the right time, an insanely good defensive line and in the case of 2011 the Giants WR's balled out just as much as Eli did. (See: Hakeem Knicks, Victor Cruz) I think a bit of luck aided them as well. (See: Tyree Catch in 2007, Kyle Williams in 2011) 9 hours ago, lolsurebro said: How much of the Texans failures in the post-season, really rests on BoB's shoulders? I think the Texans have enough talent to where they should be a serious SB contender. Watson, Hopkins, JJ Watt, Mercilus, etc. The fact that nobody even takes a team that talented seriously come playoff time is a testament to how much BOB holds them back. If you watch a Texans game you'll see just how inept he is as a gameday coach. Would the Texans have won a SB if he wasn't their coach? Probably not. Doubt that they could've been able to get past the Brady/Belichick Pats before this year. But blowing a 24-0 lead in 10 minutes is absolutely inexcusable and it happened in large part because of stupid decisions that were directly made by BOB. 9 hours ago, lolsurebro said: Did Philip Rivers really keep the Chargers out of a superbowl victory, or perhaps it was more to blame the OC? Even though I'm a Chargers fan I have no problem criticizing Rivers when it is merited. I've always complained that he can't ever keep his cool in crucial situations at the end of games, that he burns way too many timeouts unnecessarily and that he often tries to play hero ball too often rather than just taking what the defense gives him. That being said - I think the narrative that he chokes in the playoffs isn't really justified. It's fair to say that he's never just balled out in a postseason like he's capable of - because that is true. But he's also just never came out and stunk up the joint A la Peyton Manning, Delhomme, Dalton, etc. It's not his fault Marlon McCree decided to fumble the game winning interception against the Pats in 06. It's not his fault Kaeding forgot how to kick in 09 against the Jets. He kept the game competitive against the undefeated Pats with a torn ACL, no Gates and no LT. The Chargers in 2013 were one 3rd & 7 stop away from getting a chance to send the Broncos game to OT. (Which would've been a giant upset). While Rivers didn't play well against the Pats it wouldn't have mattered if we did, the Pats scored 5 TD's in their fist 5 drives to start the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefs_5627 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 34 minutes ago, Dan_Bali said: You ok big guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Ownership. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 10 hours ago, Dan_Bali said: What the Chiefs are going thru now is unprecedented for the franchise, fan base and the entire dystopian landscape of Missouri. Hence the absolute jubilation and disbelief that they have a dog in the race on SB Sunday. Please try to not talk about fanbases. - ET Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan_W Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 having a 'culture of success' brings quality players to your team; and has them maintain a work ethic that will keep them with the team sometimes in a contest of inches, one player giving less than 110% can lose it for everyone when someone sees their teammate not give it their all, morale erodes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 1. QB play 2. Culture/Leadership 3. Talent Edited January 31, 2020 by MSURacerDT55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluhartz Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 9 hours ago, PapaShogun said: Ownership. as a Bengals fan....sadly this but our hero that will overcome the bad ownership, coaching and everything bad is coming this April!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolsurebro Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Ryan_W said: having a 'culture of success' brings quality players to your team; and has them maintain a work ethic that will keep them with the team sometimes in a contest of inches, one player giving less than 110% can lose it for everyone when someone sees their teammate not give it their all, morale erodes I think I agree with this a lot. If you look at Cleveland this year, they had all the right tools but lacked the type of culture that I think they needed. I could be reading into it too much, but it would seem that Kitchens had a lot to do with this. If anything, it was present in the fact that he wore that stupid Rudolph Swung First shirt or whatever it was. And to your second point, we saw the Texans surge to life with a big play by Watt in one of the final games (specific one is eluding me at this moment.) But after that play you just saw the entire team come to life. It was remarkable. And to answer my own thread, I think it trickles down from ownership. Ownership needs to assign a good GM/HC who promote good culture and hire motivated staff to bring in new ideas and work hard to succeed. I think from there, whatever you have established will be picked up on by the players. Without a solid foundation, your players aren't going to want to put 110% into the game. For as much as the Dolphins were the biggest joke of a team to start 2019, something about their coaching and culture punched through and that team really showed a lot of promise by the end of the season. Excited for 2020 for them (even as a pats fan.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 dibby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiltman Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 2019 Eagles Success: 35% Carson Wentz - He held it together, had a couple bad games while his weapons all dropped around him. But figured it out and took a bunch of nobodies and won for a month to get into the playoffs. 25% Jim Schwartz - Again had some spotty weeks, but overall got the defense to some pretty solid play with not a ton of talent when it mattered. Fantastic against the run. If we ever devoted resources to star level talent on that side, particularly the secondary...the Eagles have a shot at a top 5 defense. 20% Miles Sanders / Jordan Howard - I’ll bundle them cause Howard had a great start to the year, got a stinger and Miles took off...enough to get in the conversation for best rookie (Bosa obviously wins it though) Miles got better every week and became the sole hope of a big play 10% Ertz / Goedert - Both had better years, but the were abandoned by underachieving and/or injured WRs all season. 10% Doug Pederson- He’ll make the other list too, but Dougs aggressiveness and ability to get his guys right and on track together at the end of a season has been remarkable. 3 years in a row he took a team poised to just quite when things looked over and got them laser focused & bonded better than before. Again a spotty season but good play calling as the season grew. Failure: 25% Groh/Walch , Doug and the entirety of the passing offensive staff - They were awful at scripting the start of games. Never made adjustments. Seemingly decided to remain ignorant to the fact that Carson Wentz is one of the best QBs throwing on the move all year. Doug not cracking the whip on his coaches was evident and sad. 25% Starting WRs (Alshon/Desean/Agholor/JJAW) - All got hurt except JJAW, and only Desean looked like he wanted to be there before missing basically all but 1 game. They truly were awful, evidenced by how much practice squad guys showed them up. 20% Howie Roseman - Simple did not address the needs our team had in an adequate way. We needed more speed on the WRs and CBs...as well as speed off the edges. He signed two injured “starting” CBs back...got Desean, who always misses games and is over 30. And shocker they got hurt again. While he hit on Miles Sanders and got us a LT of the future in Dillard...his pick of JJAW looks to be an awful miss with the WRs taken after doing so well. We were handcuffed from adding true talent because of the comp pick formula. And when given the opportunities to upgrade at reasonable prices...he never pulled the trigger. 20% CBs - They were awful most of the year. Mills coming back somewhat stabilized things but they still would get torched every week. We need two new starters, and a safety too most likely. 7% DL - The secondary was have plenty of issues that held back the DL...but injured and lack of production was embarrassing for a group that is supposed to be the key cog in the scheme. Derek Barnett was pretty disappointing. DTs, besides Cox kept dropping like flies. 3% LBs - they are nothing entities. No splash plays. that’s the scheme tho, but having mediocre players is hurting more than I think Howie expected. They need to Carry their own weight. some tweaks I could make probably. But this is off the top of my head the breakdown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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