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Lamar Jackson UNANIMOUS 2019 MVP

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45 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

....are you suggesting that last offseason, we - as Ravens fans - were out of line saying he was being incredibly disrespected?

Wouldn’t the numerous takes of him not being an NFL-capable QB last offseason, coupled with him winning unanimous MVP the following year, mean that we were 100% correct in thinking the disrespect pointed towards him all last offseason made him a martyr of public opinion?

I mean, this is a weird thing to complain about considering Ravens fans were 100% right about everything we said last offseason lol

The debate was valid during the offseason, and I do think Ravens fans were justified in defending their QB after his first post-season showing, but it never really deescalated even after he cemented himself as MVP caliber early this season. It's become impossible to have a level-headed conversation about Lamar without his supporters climbing the walls whenever someone has the nerve to criticize him. The attempts at turning his overcoming adversity into a brand have reached a unhealthy level and if anything it invites more disingenuous hot takes from haters than it silences them.

The worst part is the kid has been a real class act about his recent success when a lot of other players would be acting like demigods in the same situation. He doesn't deserve the conversation about him to be so over the top.

Sorry if this is coming out of nowhere by the way. I registered to talk about this in a different thread but the conversation had long since moved on when my account got approved 3 weeks later. This should be a decent load off my chest though.

Edited by LeonKennedy

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8 minutes ago, LeonKennedy said:

The debate was valid during the offseason, and I do think Ravens fans were justified in defending their QB after his first post-season showing, but it never really deescalated even after he cemented himself as MVP caliber early this season. It's become impossible to have a level-headed conversation about Lamar without his supporters climbing the walls whenever someone has the nerve to criticize him. The attempts at turning his overcoming adversity into a brand have reached a unhealthy level and if anything it invites more disingenuous hot takes from haters than it silences them.

The worst part is the kid has been a real class act about his recent success when a lot of other players would be acting like demigods in the same situation. He doesn't deserve the conversation about him to be so over the top.

Sorry if this is coming out of nowhere by the way. I registered to talk about this in a different thread but the conversation had long moved on when my account got approved 3 weeks later. This should be a decent load off my chest though.

When people offer valid criticism (I.E., not just saying he's not a good passer or isn't gonna last because he runs and MIGHT get injured), you'll find we are pretty open to discussing his shortcomings.

Dude just led the league in touchdown passes and had a historic year but you bring that up to people and most dudes just think he's been throwing to wide open guys all year and use that false ideal to reinforce the myth that he's not a good passer. Can he get more consistent? Absolutely. Does he still need to work on his intermediate/deep accuracy? Yes. Is he a bad passer who can't go through reads? Absolutely not, and he has 16+ games this year that shows it.

So I mean really we're just not here to discuss things that are patently false any more. Most of this forum wrote him off after last year, to the tune of EXTREME hyperbole. A lot of those people are still on that bus, even after a unanimous MVP season.

 

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100% deserving of the award. I would like to see the Ravens scheme him more in the pocket and less running just for longevity sake.

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On 04/02/2020 at 6:29 AM, tyler735 said:

Well deserved for Lamar, still baffles me people can think Vick was anywhere near as good as Lamar.

I honestly believe Lamar will be a HOF player. However, I'm currently watching Vick's 30 for 30 - Goddamn, I completely forgot just how physically gifted Mike Vick was. Lamar's the better player, but Vick is the freakier athlete. 

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9 hours ago, Small Town Values said:

I honestly believe Lamar will be a HOF player. However, I'm currently watching Vick's 30 for 30 - Goddamn, I completely forgot just how physically gifted Mike Vick was. Lamar's the better player, but Vick is the freakier athlete. 

I'll concede arm strength as an advantage for Vick, but outside of that, their athleticism looks to be pretty much identical and I don't think a person could really say either has a noticeable advantage in terms of speed/change of direction/acceleration both are far beyond any of their peers in those regards.  

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On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2020 at 5:59 PM, wackywabbit said:

Of course it was unanimous; if anyone dared to not vote Jackson, it would have been treated as an injustice...

 

case in point:

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2020 at 6:32 PM, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Well deserved. I wonder how Bill Polian is doing today.

Why has one man's opinion hurt so many feelings?  Everyone is entitled to their opinion; he was wrong, move on....

 

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52 minutes ago, frenchie said:

Of course it was unanimous; if anyone dared to not vote Jackson, it would have been treated as an injustice...

Meh.

52 minutes ago, frenchie said:

case in point:

Why has one man's opinion hurt so many feelings?  Everyone is entitled to their opinion; he was wrong, move on....

 

Disagree a little accountability isn't the worst thing. It's one thing to be wrong on a player, but it's quite another to be so wrong that you suggest they need to switch positions...Only for them to win a unanimous MVP within a couple years of said moronic statements. He deserves some flak.

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4 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Disagree a little accountability isn't the worst thing. It's one thing to be wrong on a player, but it's quite another to be so wrong that you suggest they need to switch positions...Only for them to win a unanimous MVP within a couple years of said moronic statements. He deserves some flak.

year in and year out, Mel Kiper is wrong on about 80% of everything he says, yet he's still considered a guru.  In fact, most of these talking heads usually get it wrong, most of the time, even basic commentary.  One guy (a HOF GM, no less) makes an off hand comment about a player that had many notable accuracy issues at the college level, and suddenly we're demanding accountability?

What was so 'moronic' about what he said?

    - Jackson was a very erratic passer at the college level, that usually doesn't translate to being a great passer as a pro...

    - Jackson's style of play, previously hasn't created sustained success at the pro level; at the time of the draft, why would anyone assume it suddenly would?

    - Yes, he turned out to be a fine QB, but who's to say he couldn't be a great WR?  What is so hurtful about that?

It's not like Polian attacked him personally, like Steven A Smith did to Tim Tebow; or like Rex Ryan did to Baker Mayfield; or like Colin Cowherd did to Mitch Trubisky; or like everybody does to Kirk Cousins...

 

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9 minutes ago, frenchie said:

 One guy (a HOF GM, no less) makes an off hand comment about a player that had many notable accuracy issues at the college level, and suddenly we're demanding accountability?

Absolutely. It was a dumb narrative he was pushing, and he deserves flack for it. Doesn't mean everything he has done deserves flack, but that comment certainly does. Also who said Mel Kiper shouldn't be accountable when he says moronic things?

9 minutes ago, frenchie said:

What was so 'moronic' about what he said?

    - Jackson was a very erratic passer at the college level, that usually doesn't translate to being a great passer as a pro...

He showed plenty of arm talent throughout his college career to be an NFL QB even if he was inconsistent at times. By this logic, why wasn't Josh Allen asked to change positions coming into the NFL? He was every bit as inconsistent if not more so than Lamar Jackson in college against worse competition.

9 minutes ago, frenchie said:

    - Jackson's style of play, previously hasn't created sustained success at the pro level; at the time of the draft, why would anyone assume it suddenly would?

Off the top of my head teams have had success with guys like Randall Cunningham, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, and Mike Vick that all have been utilized as mobile QB's throughout their career's. Obviously the list isn't as long as the classic statue pocket passer, but there has been successes.

9 minutes ago, frenchie said:

    - Yes, he turned out to be a fine QB, but who's to say he couldn't be a great WR?  What is so hurtful about that?

The guy was a Heisman winning QB that more importantly flashed rare potential for the QB position and was slapped in the face with a WR label that he has never played before. 

 

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2 hours ago, frenchie said:

case in point:

Why has one man's opinion hurt so many feelings?  Everyone is entitled to their opinion; he was wrong, move on....

Bill Polian not only said Lamar "is short" and "should switch to WR", but also left Lamar off of his All-Pro ballot

Like it or not, he's a well-respected (well...was) HoF GM who was not only wrong then, but continues to double down on being wrong now. He should be called out whenever possible, IMO.

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1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

So?  You can only pick one; I don't know who he voted for, but a case can easily be made for Wilson, Mahomes, or even Brees...  and this is the problem, anyone who doesn't agree that Lamar Jackson is the greatest, is just a hater trying to slight him...

1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

 It was a dumb narrative he was pushing

You say 'pushing a narrative' to make it sound more sinister, but it was simply an opinion...

1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

Also who said Mel Kiper shouldn't be accountable when he says moronic things?

He's been a feature on ESPN like 25 years, and hasn't yet...

1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

Off the top of my head teams have had success with guys like Randall Cunningham, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, and Mike Vick that all have been utilized as mobile QB's throughout their career's. Obviously the list isn't as long as the classic statue pocket passer, but there has been successes.

Cunningham was an average QB with a pretty bad playoff record.

Wilson is the exception, but the difference is he is one of the best passers in the league.

Newton had 2 good seasons as a pro, everything else has been average or worse.

Vick, aside from the highlight run here and there, was not a particularly good QB.  To call his career a success is quite the stretch... 

But the point is, the consistency and/or success rate was few and far between, why would have anyone been expected to overlook that in Lamar's case?

2 hours ago, tyler735 said:

The guy was a Heisman winning QB that more importantly flashed rare potential for the QB position and was slapped in the face with a WR label that he has never played before. 

But it wasn't a slap in the face to suggest Tebow should be a fullback?

What about Eric Crouch?  He was asked to play WR?  Where was the outrage?

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23 minutes ago, frenchie said:

But it wasn't a slap in the face to suggest Tebow should be a fullback?

Tebow's throwing motion was a slap in the face.

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27 minutes ago, frenchie said:

So?  You can only pick one; I don't know who he voted for, but a case can easily be made for Wilson, Mahomes, or even Brees...  and this is the problem, anyone who doesn't agree that Lamar Jackson is the greatest, is just a hater trying to slight him...

Or people just point out silly statements being made against Lamar and nobody is arguing he is the GOAT. 

27 minutes ago, frenchie said:

You say 'pushing a narrative' to make it sound more sinister, but it was simply an opinion...

His "opinion" was pushing a narrative beyond what most of his skeptics had said about Lamar.

27 minutes ago, frenchie said:

He's been a feature on ESPN like 25 years, and hasn't yet...

He's been called out before. Bill Tobin comes to mind.

27 minutes ago, frenchie said:

Cunningham was an average QB with a pretty bad playoff record.

Wilson is the exception, but the difference is he is one of the best passers in the league.

Newton had 2 good seasons as a pro, everything else has been average or worse.

Vick, aside from the highlight run here and there, was not a particularly good QB.  To call his career a success is quite the stretch... 

But the point is, the consistency and/or success rate was few and far between, why would have anyone been expected to overlook that in Lamar's case?

Well there have been very few QB's to ever possess Lamar's athleticism/arm talent. I suppose that could certainly skew the numbers a bit compared to the thousands of statue QB's that have come into the league. I won't be surprised to see this years OROY, Kyler Murray join the list of successful mobile QB's. Could add in guys like Donovan McNabb, Daunte Culpepper, and Steve Mcnair they all were known as mobile QB's coming into the NFL and had success in the league.

27 minutes ago, frenchie said:

But it wasn't a slap in the face to suggest Tebow should be a fullback?

The same Tim Tebow that was drafted a 1st round pick at QB and wasn't asked to convert until a few years into his NFL career?

27 minutes ago, frenchie said:

What about Eric Crouch?  He was asked to play WR?  Where was the outrage?

The same Eric Crouch that threw for 7 touchdowns and 10 interceptions his senior year of college? The same one that threw for less touchdowns in his entire 4 years at Nebraska than Lamar did in just his Sophomore year in college? Yikes.

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20 hours ago, Habbsawce said:

100% deserving of the award. I would like to see the Ravens scheme him more in the pocket and less running just for longevity sake.

Agreed. Hopefully Roman has the ability to do a better job scheming open the receivers. He does a great job scheming open the run, but getting our receivers more open looks could definitely be improved... though I suppose that’s David Culley’s job.

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Dude was unstoppable this year. Rush him, he'll pass over you. Drop back, he'll run around you. 

The playoff loss was what makes the NFL exciting. Catch a hot team at the wrong time and they will beat you. 

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