BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 10 hours ago, Heinz D. said: If they release or trade Carr (to get Brady)...they're not making a very good decision, IMO. And it will most likely come back to bite them. That's all I'm saying... Gruden has ten years, and Davis seems just fine being odd. It's never clear if the raiders are trying to win or rebuild to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 5 hours ago, Madmike90 said: I feel Gruden has his guys...Mack is a very special player who became available. But he doesn't play QB. I'm with @topwop1 here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, beardown3231 said: But he doesn't play QB. I'm with @topwop1 here Exactly. Plus it's hard to pay an elite pass rusher like Mack what he's worth on a new deal when Raiders were already committed to pay elite QB money to Derek Carr in 2018 ($25M) and 2019 ($22.5M). And Raiders still managed to get a nice haul from us for Mack. The reason it made sense at the time for us to take on a huge contract like Mack's was because Trubisky was going into only his 2nd year under a very manageable contract and so we could afford the large Mack cap hits. But again, not all teams are going to be overly keen on taking on big contracts for just 1 defensive player, like the Khalil Mack's or Aaron Donald's of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Exactly. Plus it's hard to pay an elite pass rusher like Mack what he's worth on a new deal when Raiders were already committed to pay elite QB money to Derek Carr in 2018 ($25M) and 2019 ($22.5M). And Raiders still managed to get a nice haul from us for Mack. The reason it made sense at the time for us to take on a huge contract like Mack's was because Trubisky was going into only his 2nd year under a very manageable contract and so we could afford the large Mack cap hits. But again, not all teams are going to be overly keen on taking on big contracts for just 1 defensive player, like the Khalil Mack's or Aaron Donald's of the world. Yep. Mack and Donald are great as was Watt in his prime, but those guys have combined for 0 championships. It's telling how important a QB is. It's easily the most important position in sports. There's a reason great QB's rarely hit the open market or are dealt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 12 hours ago, Heinz D. said: If they release or trade Carr (to get Brady)...they're not making a very good decision, IMO. And it will most likely come back to bite them. That's all I'm saying... That's because you're of the opinion Carr is an elite QB. A lot of people, including myself, are not, so that's why I am saying I wouldn't be surprised if they let him go to have 1 or 2 years with Brady as their QB. That there are rumors out there saying the Raiders are considering a serious run at Brady is all you need to know on what they think about Carr as their long term starter. And again this isn't me ripping Carr, I think he's a decent NFL QB, and I wouldn't hate it if he were the Bears QB if Trubisky doesn't work out, but I feel we could do a lot better for the money. If Tru doesn't work out then I'd be way more inclined to draft another cost controlled rookie QB in the 1st round of the 2021 Draft than to spend $20M+ per year on a guy like Derek Carr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 I would understand the Carr move. As I have said before the trade comp and money would make me uneasy. I think the best long term move is to draft someone in 2021. Carr is a slightly above average QB because of his efficiency and low turnovers. But he isn’t in tier 1 or 2 in my world. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, topwop1 said: That there are rumors out there saying the Raiders are considering a serious run at Brady is all you need to know on what they think about Carr as their long term starter. This isn't at all reflective of what the NFL thinks about Carr. Jon Gruden has never started or developed a young QB and has gone out of his way to acquire aging veterans to avoid having to work with younger players. Edited February 17, 2020 by abstract_thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, abstract_thought said: This isn't at all reflective of what the NFL thinks about Carr. Jon Gruden has never started or developed a young QB and has gone out of his way to acquire aging veterans to avoid having to work with younger players. Derek Carr is turning 29 this year and has played in the NFL already for 6 seasons so I wouldn't exactly classify him as a young player but I get your point. Though I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that the average NFL executive probably thinks Carr is a guy that can start for you and have a few high quality games per year but isn't exactly the type of QB that is going to put your team over the top and win a/multiple championships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 29 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Derek Carr is turning 29 this year and has played in the NFL already for 6 seasons so I wouldn't exactly classify him as a young player but I get your point. Though I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that the average NFL executive probably thinks Carr is a guy that can start for you and have a few high quality games per year but isn't exactly the type of QB that is going to put your team over the top and win a/multiple championships. I'd agree but I think the list of QBs that can win multiple championships typically includes 2-3 guys. Even good QBs need a lot of help and a good supporting cast to win championships. The Bears are close to having that supporting cast. They're in a situation where they can build a short-term championship contender around a QB like Carr. If they wait 1-2 years, their window will close and they'll have to blow things up or hope for some really good draft classes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, abstract_thought said: I'd agree but I think the list of QBs that can win multiple championships typically includes 2-3 guys. Even good QBs need a lot of help and a good supporting cast to win championships. The Bears are close to having that supporting cast. They're in a situation where they can build a short-term championship contender around a QB like Carr. If they wait 1-2 years, their window will close and they'll have to blow things up or hope for some really good draft classes. I disagree that Bears are close to having that supporting cast, at least on offense. Defense yes, but we are talking about the O here. We need a new RG, a new stud TE, improved depth at both tackle spots, and more reliable/speedy receiving options outside of ARob, plus probably some better depth at RB. By trading for Carr you are not only having to give up a draft pick asset that could be used to add fairly cheap depth at a position of need for the next 4 seasons, but you are also committing $20M per season over the next 2 seasons to the QB position, plus Mitch's ~$9M guaranteed for this season, which will surely take away cap space to help sign any supporting cast on offense. I just don't think it'd be a wise move for this team to make. To me, there are plenty of other options that will be far cheaper and just as good, if not better than Carr. This is of course assuming it doesn't work out with Trubisky based on this coming season, which from what we know, he will be given every chance to succeed. Edited February 17, 2020 by topwop1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malagabears Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/1230547120051998722?s=20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Carr is a significant upgrade from Trubisky but would he be able to produce his career averages here in Chicago? Offensive line issues, lack of the lack of talent at the tight end position, our lead running back is still unproven, Etc. I think my issue is that I don't want Pace to mortgage the Bears future on a player That is going to require a big contract like her. I don't see our cap restricted by a vet QB and then the new GM has to work around it. His cap is unlikely becomes more friendly for the team if he moves on from Oakland. Personally I don't remember how well Carr plays when the run game is down, or if he has a lot of pressure in his face. Both are likely to happen here in Chicago compared to Oakland. The advantage here is that we won't have to score as much because the defense should still be one of the better ones in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sugashane said: Carr is a significant upgrade from Trubisky but would he be able to produce his career averages here in Chicago? Offensive line issues, lack of the lack of talent at the tight end position, our lead running back is still unproven, Etc. I think my issue is that I don't want Pace to mortgage the Bears future on a player That is going to require a big contract like her. I don't see our cap restricted by a vet QB and then the new GM has to work around it. His cap is unlikely becomes more friendly for the team if he moves on from Oakland. Personally I don't remember how well Carr plays when the run game is down, or if he has a lot of pressure in his face. Both are likely to happen here in Chicago compared to Oakland. The advantage here is that we won't have to score as much because the defense should still be one of the better ones in the NFL. You can still improve the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 23 minutes ago, Sugashane said: Carr is a significant upgrade from Trubisky but would he be able to produce his career averages here in Chicago? Offensive line issues, lack of the lack of talent at the tight end position, our lead running back is still unproven, Etc. I think my issue is that I don't want Pace to mortgage the Bears future on a player That is going to require a big contract like her. I don't see our cap restricted by a vet QB and then the new GM has to work around it. His cap is unlikely becomes more friendly for the team if he moves on from Oakland. Personally I don't remember how well Carr plays when the run game is down, or if he has a lot of pressure in his face. Both are likely to happen here in Chicago compared to Oakland. The advantage here is that we won't have to score as much because the defense should still be one of the better ones in the NFL. I think the assumption is the OLand TE positions are about to get big upgrades. Will the OL be as good as LV's in September? Doubt it. Is Robinson better than any WR in Vegas? Yes. Is Montgomery as good as Jacobs?No. Can the Bears improve the TE spot to where they're on par or better than Waller? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: I think the assumption is the OLand TE positions are about to get big upgrades. Will the OL be as good as LV's in September? Doubt it. Is Robinson better than any WR in Vegas? Yes. Is Montgomery as good as Jacobs?No. Can the Bears improve the TE spot to where they're on par or better than Waller? Yes. TE doesn’t even have to be on par with Waller (though that’d be great), but at minimum a competent starter is an absolute must. The most likely scenario in all of this has always been for a big investment this offseason in the non-QB parts of the offense and a more viable backup than Daniel should that not be enough to flip 10’s switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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