If the Raiders signed Brady, would you pursue Carr?

[Heinz D.]

On 2/17/2020 at 9:11 AM, topwop1 said:

That's because you're of the opinion Carr is an elite QB.

A lot of people, including myself, are not, so that's why I am saying I wouldn't be surprised if they let him go to have 1 or 2 years with Brady as their QB.  

That there are rumors out there saying the Raiders are considering a serious run at Brady is all you need to know on what they think about Carr as their long term starter.

And again this isn't me ripping Carr, I think he's a decent NFL QB, and I wouldn't hate it if he were the Bears QB if Trubisky doesn't work out, but I feel we could do a lot better for the money.

If Tru doesn't work out then I'd be way more inclined to draft another cost controlled rookie QB in the 1st round of the 2021 Draft than to spend $20M+ per year on a guy like Derek Carr.

 

Actually, it's because I think Brady is declining already, and probably really only has two good years left in him. If he goes, Brady isn't going to be a transcendent playing in Las Vegas. He'd be a slight upgrade to Carr (probably), and would necessitate jettisoning a good quarterback who can still play for another five to ten years. 

Tom Brady on the Raiders most likely doesn't make them Super Bowl favorites. 

And anyone who has followed Gruden knows he's had serious issues evaluating the quarterback position. 

[Sugashane]

23 hours ago, WindyCity said:

You can still improve the team.

You can,  or they might regress at numerous stores too. There's a lot of assumptions on how we were going to improve this year and obviously that didn't work out.

 

22 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

I think the assumption is the OLand TE positions are about to get big upgrades. Will the OL be as good as LV's in September? Doubt it. Is Robinson better than any WR in Vegas? Yes. Is Montgomery as good as Jacobs?No. Can the Bears improve the TE spot to where they're on par or better than Waller? Yes.

If the Bears are getting Carr then I don't see any way they can afford Hooper or Henry, at least not while addressing the other holes on the team. They're the only two who are better or on par with Waller in free agency in my opinion. You still might have a second-rounder to put towards the o-line and it shouldn't be hard to upgrade from what Long was last year, but Leno still won't be able to handle power rushers and Massey is still an expert at turnstile impersonations. Maybe they get a gem in the draft Idk. Overall my faith is wavering in Pace, he has done a lot really well but has enough misses I'm  nervous on him making long term decisions. I can get behind going after a top QB to draft but that's about it. 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Sugashane

[BayRaider]

On 2/21/2020 at 2:29 PM, Heinz D. said:

Actually, it's because I think Brady is declining already, and probably really only has two good years left in him. If he goes, Brady isn't going to be a transcendent playing in Las Vegas. He'd be a slight upgrade to Carr (probably), and would necessitate jettisoning a good quarterback who can still play for another five to ten years. 

Tom Brady on the Raiders most likely doesn't make them Super Bowl favorites. 

And anyone who has followed Gruden knows he's had serious issues evaluating the quarterback position. 

Carr was terrible the year before Gruden got here. 2017 was easily his worst season. A year he had the #4 Pass Protection and basically two #1 WR’s. His air yards in nex gen stats that year was dead last I believe. And he just played absolutely miserably all year long. Gruden is not the issue, Grudens play calling has been fantastic since he has come back to the NFL. I think the Raiders had the most yards AND points per drive of any team in the NFL last year. His play calling and schemes are silky smooth. 
 

Carr also had the #2 Pass Protection behind Indy, Top 5-6 TE in Waller, Solid 2nd TE, Top 7-8 RB in Jacobs, and two solid WRs in Tyrell and Renfrow. He had a much better offense than all QBs in the league. 
 

You want him in Chicago with a Bottom 12 OL, much worse offense overall, and he is 0-6 in sub 40 degree weather with a 60’s QB Rating. 
 

Good luck. 

[Heinz D.]

4 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Carr was terrible the year before Gruden got here. 2017 was easily his worst season. A year he had the #4 Pass Protection and basically two #1 WR’s. His air yards in nex gen stats that year was dead last I believe. And he just played absolutely miserably all year long. Gruden is not the issue, Grudens play calling has been fantastic since he has come back to the NFL. I think the Raiders had the most yards AND points per drive of any team in the NFL last year. His play calling and schemes are silky smooth. 
 

Carr also had the #2 Pass Protection behind Indy, Top 5-6 TE in Waller, Solid 2nd TE, Top 7-8 RB in Jacobs, and two solid WRs in Tyrell and Renfrow. He had a much better offense than all QBs in the league. 
 

You want him in Chicago with a Bottom 12 OL, much worse offense overall, and he is 0-6 in sub 40 degree weather with a 60’s QB Rating. 
 

Good luck. 

So you've talked yourself into thinking Carr is terrible, eh? Interesting. I do agree with you on Gruden's playcalling and overall offensive ingenuity. What I was getting at was the guys he's either drafted or brought in to play the position--in the past, anyway. 

Do you think the Raiders have a good shot at getting Brady? (I haven't followed that story in a few days.) Do you think he'd be a really big improvement? Are most Raiders fans excited by that possibility? Just curious. 

[BayRaider]

3 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

So you've talked yourself into thinking Carr is terrible, eh? Interesting. I do agree with you on Gruden's playcalling and overall offensive ingenuity. What I was getting at was the guys he's either drafted or brought in to play the position--in the past, anyway. 

Do you think the Raiders have a good shot at getting Brady? (I haven't followed that story in a few days.) Do you think he'd be a really big improvement? Are most Raiders fans excited by that possibility? Just curious. 

Brady is still a Top 6-7 QB in this league quite easily. His arm has not lost any velocity. His supporting cast I would rank dead last in the NFL: WRs/RBs/TEs. OL below average... 18-22 range. 

[Heinz D.]

20 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Brady is still a Top 6-7 QB in this league quite easily. His arm has not lost any velocity. His supporting cast I would rank dead last in the NFL: WRs/RBs/TEs. OL below average... 18-22 range. 

Agree on Brady, except I'd grade NE's line as slightly better than that. But that's nitpicking. Is there a sense among the Raiders faithful that Brady to Vegas will happen? 

[BayRaider]

5 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Agree on Brady, except I'd grade NE's line as slightly better than that. But that's nitpicking. Is there a sense among the Raiders faithful that Brady to Vegas will happen? 

Most are open to Brady. But Carr is still a split thing on this forum. Pretty 50/50. But the ones against Carr always provide detailed arguments and the ones for Carr post emotional attachment type posts “Noooo, hes our QB!!!”. It’s a 70/30 split against Carr on most other platforms. 
 

Personally I will support Mayock/Gruden in whatever they do, including keeping Carr another season. They’ve really turned this team around. Last season those young guys fought hard every game. 

[Heinz D.]

2 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Personally I will support Mayock/Gruden in whatever they do, including keeping Carr another season. They’ve really turned this team around. Last season those young guys fought hard every game. 

Absolutely. 

(A "like" wasn't sufficient enough for that observation. ) 

[soulman]

On 2/2/2020 at 11:57 AM, malagabears said:

Just a what if scenario, would you pursue Carr as a backup or competition to Buscuit if the price were right?

I would not pursue him in a trade and whether or not it would even be practical to pursue him as a FA would depend on cost and how he fits into the plans.

Pace seems stuck on keeping Mitch 'til he either succeeds or goes down in flames and IMHO once you bring in a guy like Carr you're already forecasting the latter will happen.  Carr isn't gonna sign to be Mitch's #2 until Mitch fails.  He'd want assurances of being in a fair competition for the #1 spot day one and so far Pace has shown no indication of agreeing to anything like that.

IF we have to make a trade for a vet QB I've typically seen Andy Dalton as a more likely target provided we can get him for a later pick AND we can extend his deal to reduce his cap costs.  He may be far more likely to come in knowing that while he'll compete it's still Mitch's gig 'til he either loses it or Dalton can take it away.  Plus his former coach is now OC so there's a connection.

This just seems far more likely to me than Carr or several others who could only be had by trade unless they're released.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

Welcome back Soulman.  I think if they trade for a QB, Carr makes the most sense, but I both don't like a trade and also don't think they will. Mariota has a feeling of cheap inevitability about him right now. 

[soulman]

I'll also add that I believe Brady will return to NE provided he's convinced Belicheat will bring in the talent needed for another SB run.  Both seem to have one or two more good years in them before father time catches up with them and the Pats in general.  It's been a great run but it has to end some time.

[soulman]

2 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

Welcome back Soulman.  I think if they trade for a QB, Carr makes the most sense, but I both don't like a trade and also don't think they will. Mariota has a feeling of cheap inevitability about him right now. 

Thanks brother.  It feels like it's finally getting close enough to real stuff again to at least take part and comment.

No doubt Carr makes sense but not at the cost of a 2nd round pick and his cap costs unless Pace is done with Mitch and nothing that's happened seems to say he is.  I also don't see Brady signing with LV rather than staying in NE.

For the past month or so I guess I've seen Dalton as their trade guy provided the whole package is affordable and Mariota as the fall back UFA.  Despite Mariota and Mitch sharing the same agent Mariota needs to land somewhere where he'll at least be given a shot at resurrecting his game under great coaching and an opportunity to become the starter.  We can offer that.

What I see is it depends on what Pace and Nagy want.  Security now against Mitch continuing to struggle game in and game out in which case Dalton is the guy.  Or do they want gamble on upside in a numbers game that assumes out of two former #2 overall picks under "Flip" tutelage at least one will arise and conquer.   Pick your poison.....or your antidote. 

[beardown3231]

27 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

Welcome back Soulman.  I think if they trade for a QB, Carr makes the most sense, but I both don't like a trade and also don't think they will. Mariota has a feeling of cheap inevitability about him right now. 

And Rosen

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

15 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

And Rosen

**** I forgot! Thanks man.

ROSEN. 

[AZBearsFan]

54 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

And Rosen

Rosen may get released, no? Unless they get Tua and he’s basically medically redshirted for 2020 Rosen is no better than their #3 if they even keep 3. I think he’s trash personally, but if one were inclined to trade for him you could surely get him for a song. I’m talking Eddie Pineiro trade level compensation.