If the Raiders signed Brady, would you pursue Carr?

[Heinz D.]

20 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

What I've been thinking is that it might be in the best interest of your GM and HC to do like Arizona did last year.  They felt that they whiffed on a QB that they had taken high in the draft, but rather than burying their heads in the sand on the situation and just hoping that it fixes itself, they decided to meet it head-on and resolve the mistake immediately.  I actually like Rosen, but it does look like Murray is going to be a good one for them.  If that happens, everybody will pretty much forget about the mistake they made with Rosen.  I'm wondering if stumping up the money required to get a quality QB like Teddy might do the same for the Bears.  It obviously hurts to see Watson in the playoffs and Mahomes actually going all the way, but if you could add a guy like Teddy to a great defense and try to add a piece here or there to give some additional weapons, it might make the whole situation a lot more palatable than watching Trubisky flounder for another whole season and then have to start all over again next year with your roster another year older.  Those are just my two cents from a semi-Bears fan looking in from a distance.

Realistically? Yeah, it would be in their best interests. And the teams. Get Carr. Or get Bridgewater. Or draft Love. Or Hurts. 

But they feel that what is actually in their best interests is to prove that they're smarter than everyone else. 

Because that always works out so well in the NFL. 

[soulman]

On 2/24/2020 at 6:59 PM, Uncle Buck said:

I just keep thinking about the Bears and how frustrating it has to be as a fan to have made a move up to get your QB and you just got the wrong guy.  It can and has happened to pretty much every team, but that doesn't make it any easier when it happens to you.  It sounds like a lot of people in here think the Bears will want to keep Trubisky and give him another chance this year in hope he figures it out.  Personally, I just don't see it happening. 

What I've been thinking is that it might be in the best interest of your GM and HC to do like Arizona did last year.  They felt that they whiffed on a QB that they had taken high in the draft, but rather than burying their heads in the sand on the situation and just hoping that it fixes itself, they decided to meet it head-on and resolve the mistake immediately.  I actually like Rosen, but it does look like Murray is going to be a good one for them.  If that happens, everybody will pretty much forget about the mistake they made with Rosen.  I'm wondering if stumping up the money required to get a quality QB like Teddy might do the same for the Bears.  It obviously hurts to see Watson in the playoffs and Mahomes actually going all the way, but if you could add a guy like Teddy to a great defense and try to add a piece here or there to give some additional weapons, it might make the whole situation a lot more palatable than watching Trubisky flounder for another whole season and then have to start all over again next year with your roster another year older.  Those are just my two cents from a semi-Bears fan looking in from a distance.

The difference between the Bears and AZ though is that Pace doesn't feel he whiffed.  At this point he still believes Mitch can turn his game around and take charge of his offense.  If we go strictly on Trubisky's physical talents that's not impossible but Mitch's most serious issues are located between his ears.  To date he seems like a great "book learner" who aces all of his written tests but can't seem to get above a C on the practical exams.  If he was a doctor you might trust him to tell you what's wrong with you but you want someone else to do the surgery for fear he'll remove the wrong organ or sew a scalpel or a sponge up inside of you.

IMHO as long as Pace continues to hold onto his thinking about Mitch the less likelihood there will be that any other QB talented enough to sign elsewhere as a starter or at least come in to compete on a level playing field will sign with Chicago and that included Teddy B. He can stay in NOLA as a well paid #2 and wait out Brees retirement if that's all he wanted. I can't see any QB who believes he should be starting coming to Chicago and waiting for Mitch to fail so again IMHO that alone with limit our options to those who've lost their starting gigs already and want another shot to regain one like Dalton or Mariota for example but not exclusively.

Pace is not in a position to give up a significant amount of draft capital or take on an $18-$20 mil cap hit for another QB.  He was able to rebuild the defense to it's level off the back of having Mitch under his rookie deal through 2020 and he has other positions on both offense and defense he needs to fill hopefully by retaining our own FAs wherever possible with enough left over to make maybe one bigger splash in FA.  He's gotten rid of those high cap cost deals he could already and has roughly $26 mil to work with.  So he can't very well spend $18-$20 mil of that picking up another QB in trade without negotiating an extension to cut that down.

The core issue is the assumption that Mitch would continue to progress in 2019 and that by 2020 with Nagy's offense fully installed and under Mitch's command we'd be ready to seriously challenge for a championship just as KC did.  But Mitch has not grasped the offense, not even a more simplified version of it, and in fact he actually regressed in 2019.  Now Pace and Nagy are at least half way up Schitt's Creek with only one paddle in the canoe and it's not a very effective one so far.  Pace won't say it out loud but I can't see where he has much choice but to keep hoping Mitch finally "gets it" for at least one more year. IMHO his options are limited.

I'm no guru but the two options that seem to make some sense based on Pace's current limitations are to make a trade for a vet QB whose been a proven starter during his career like Andy Dalton.  Or make an attempt to bring in a younger FA like Mariota who needs much of the same "fixing" Mitch does and hope that under DeFilippo's coaching one or the other will rise to the level expected of them when they were drafted.  Dalton or someone like him is a more secure approach for now whereas pairing Mitch and Mariota in a QB competition could pay off big for a long time if it works.  One way or another it seems like Pace is gonna have to roll the dice.

[topwop1]

5 hours ago, soulman said:

The difference between the Bears and AZ though is that Pace doesn't feel he whiffed.  At this point he still believes Mitch can turn his game around and take charge of his offense.  If we go strictly on Trubisky's physical talents that's not impossible but Mitch's most serious issues are located between his ears.  To date he seems like a great "book learner" who aces all of his written tests but can't seem to get above a C on the practical exams.  If he was a doctor you might trust him to tell you what's wrong with you but you want someone else to do the surgery for fear he'll remove the wrong organ or sew a scalpel or a sponge up inside of you.

I don't believe that you can say that Pace doesn't feel he whiffed on Trubisky.  How can anyone say that?  You don't think he feels even the slightest bit of regret about passing on Mahomes and Watson for Mitch in hindsight?  Doubtful.

The difference in the scenario you describe above is that AZ had the #1 overall pick last year and Kyler Murray was a better and more dynamic prospect than Josh Rosen, so they decided to make the move, especially since they were offered a 2nd round pick for Rosen. Win win.

Turns out they were smart to move on from Rosen who couldn't even crack the starting QB job for an awful Miami Dolphins squad who were in clear tank mode.

Bears, unfortunately do not have the luxury of drafting a high end QB prospect and completely turn the page Mitch.  They put all their draft eggs in that basket and by trading multiple picks for Mack, so now they are in a precarious position where they have to try and salvage what they can given the limited resources they have at their disposal. 

This is why I believe Mitch will be given every chance to succeed in 2020 and a decent enough backup with some upside will be brought in to push him, however, we are probably looking at least 2021 before we see them make another significant draft investment in a top QB prospect.

[soulman]

3 hours ago, topwop1 said:

I don't believe that you can say that Pace doesn't feel he whiffed on Trubisky.  How can anyone say that?  You don't think he feels even the slightest bit of regret about passing on Mahomes and Watson for Mitch in hindsight?  Doubtful.

The difference in the scenario you describe above is that AZ had the #1 overall pick last year and Kyler Murray was a better and more dynamic prospect than Josh Rosen, so they decided to make the move, especially since they were offered a 2nd round pick for Rosen. Win win.

Turns out they were smart to move on from Rosen who couldn't even crack the starting QB job for an awful Miami Dolphins squad who were in clear tank mode.

Bears, unfortunately do not have the luxury of drafting a high end QB prospect and completely turn the page Mitch.  They put all their draft eggs in that basket and by trading multiple picks for Mack, so now they are in a precarious position where they have to try and salvage what they can given the limited resources they have at their disposal. 

This is why I believe Mitch will be given every chance to succeed in 2020 and a decent enough backup with some upside will be brought in to push him, however, we are probably looking at least 2021 before we see them make another significant draft investment in a top QB prospect.

I can't really know what in his mind regarding his choice of Mitch over the other two and you can't either so I'll just define it this way.

To me a whiff is a strikeout or at least that's the way it's always been defined in baseball.  As of now Mitch still has his starting gig and Pace's continued backing in public if that means anything.  So while Mitch may have two strikes on him in the bottom of the ninth he hasn't struck out yet and that appears to be the way Pace sees it as well or at least how he's gonna play it out in public.

Privately he may have admitted he made a mistake or maybe wonder what he missed on as far as Mahomes is concerned or he may feel exactly the same as he has said before.  That some QBs take longer to develop than others and that with only one year as a starter in college he knew Mitch might take longer to develop.  The point is we don't know and if does have remorse that would be quite human.

I agree with you that trading up for Mitch then trading for Mack to complete the puzzle has painted Pace into a corner and to a degree Matt Nagy with him.  Their options outside of Mitch are very limited so for one more season they sink or swim with Mitch and the best #2 Pace can afford and get to come to Chicago.  Next year it could be a whole new deal or not.  It all depends on Mitch's success or failure.

[Uncle Buck]

I didn't know that Mitch was only a one-year starter in college.  That actually makes the decision to roll the dice on him a little less egregious, IMO.  It was still a pick you will probably regret for a long time, but I could see why he could have done it.  He may have thought "Mitch has the physical tools, but he is very raw.  I see enough in him that I'm willing to roll the dice on his ability to improve on areas where he is just inexperienced."  That actually makes Pace's decision a lot more sensible as far as I'm concerned.  He still rolled snake eyes (when considering who he passed on), but I can respect the guy for being willing to put himself out there and taking the gamble.  That's a lot better than these guys who always play it safe and don't ever give you a chance to win big.  As the old saying goes: "If you want to sail big ships, you have to go where the water is deep."

[Heinz D.]

7 hours ago, topwop1 said:

I don't believe that you can say that Pace doesn't feel he whiffed on Trubisky.  How can anyone say that?  

Because he's already named Mitch the starter next year? And said that he and Nagy are behind Mitch 100%? And because he hasn't done a single thing to make us doubt those statements? Nor do we think he will? 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Heinz D.

[topwop1]

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

Because he's already named Mitch the starter next year? And said that he and Nagy are behind Mitch 100%? And because he hasn't done a single thing to make us doubt those statements? Nor do we think he will? 

Go and read the comments in the Ryan Pace presser thread from posters including myself on why Pace is saying these things at this point in the offseason. I don't need to rehash what I've already said about that. 

[Madmike90]

And now the NFL gets real fun...49ers are chasing Brady meaning Jimmy G would be available...what would we give up for him? More less than Carr? Would we take on the $22 million cap hit? Interesting stuff.

[AZBearsFan]

6 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

And now the NFL gets real fun...49ers are chasing Brady meaning Jimmy G would be available...what would we give up for him? More less than Carr? Would we take on the $22 million cap hit? Interesting stuff.

I don’t buy the SF/Brady rumor at all. But...

Should we wanna trade for a 28-year old guy who just took his team to the Super Bowl yet is being dumped by his team for a 1-2 year rental? That should give pause, no?

By nearly every measurable statistic Garoppolo was better than Brady in 2019, and he’s 15 years younger. That should give pause too, no? 

[WindyCity]

18 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

I don’t buy the SF/Brady rumor at all. But...

Should we wanna trade for a 28-year old guy who just took his team to the Super Bowl yet is being dumped by his team for a 1-2 year rental? That should give pause, no?

By nearly every measurable statistic Garoppolo was better than Brady in 2019, and he’s 15 years younger. That should give pause too, no? 

I don’t think Garoppolo is special, but he is better than Carr and much better than Trubisky.

I am not sure I would make the deal, but you would have to think about it.

[Heinz D.]

46 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

I don’t think Garoppolo is special, but he is better than Carr and much better than Trubisky.

I am not sure I would make the deal, but you would have to think about it.

He hasn't proven he's better than Carr. 

[AZBearsFan]

52 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

I don’t think Garoppolo is special, but he is better than Carr and much better than Trubisky.

I am not sure I would make the deal, but you would have to think about it.

Not necessarily a disagreement, but I’d want to see Mitch in Shanahan’s offense (which is COMPLETELY PERFECT FIT for his skills and limitations) before I declare that Garoppolo is that much better. I’m not totally convinced JG operating in 2019 with what Mitch did would have looked significantly different.

If Shanahan thinks JG is that much better than Mitch then he’s not dumping him and potentially the next 10 years of him for 1 year of Brady. If he doesn’t then I don’t want to trade for him anyway. 

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, AZBearsFan said:

Not necessarily a disagreement, but I’d want to see Mitch in Shanahan’s offense (which is COMPLETELY PERFECT FIT for his skills and limitations) before I declare that Garoppolo is that much better. I’m not totally convinced JG operating in 2019 with what Mitch did would have looked significantly different.

If Shanahan thinks JG is that much better than Mitch then he’s not dumping him and potentially the next 10 years of him for 1 year of Brady. If he doesn’t then I don’t want to trade for him anyway. 

I don’t think they do it either.

But there is also a wide area between not as good as Brady and better than Mitch that Jimmy G is in.

He and Carr are very similar. I take Jimmy because he is no allergic to the downfield pass.

[Heinz D.]

35 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

Not necessarily a disagreement, but I’d want to see Mitch in Shanahan’s offense (which is COMPLETELY PERFECT FIT for his skills and limitations) before I declare that Garoppolo is that much better. I’m not totally convinced JG operating in 2019 with what Mitch did would have looked significantly different.

If Shanahan thinks JG is that much better than Mitch then he’s not dumping him and potentially the next 10 years of him for 1 year of Brady. If he doesn’t then I don’t want to trade for him anyway. 

Is there a  chance they swap Jimmy G for Mitch?

I...I don't understand...

[WindyCity]

It’s just sad we are here.

 

Why can’t this team ever hire anyone who can pick a QB? I know it is hard, but these guys are incompetent.