abstract_thought Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 The choice between Foles at 15M and Carr at 19M is really straightforward. IIRC there is no guaranteed money coming with Carr and he’s the better player. Buying on Carr now may put a ceiling on the 2020 team but it gives the Bears a reasonably priced, above-average QB through 2022. It effectively extends this team’s competitive window. If you go with Mitch you’re basically doubling-down on him and hoping you can win in 2020 because after that he’ll either be gone or he’ll get a Goff type deal. Nothing I’ve seen from Mitch makes me confident in betting on him to lead the Bears to a super bowl in 2020. Making halfhearted attempts to address the QB problem will just ensure the Bears stay on a slow path towards rebuilding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Just now, abstract_thought said: The choice between Foles at 15M and Carr at 19M is really straightforward. IIRC there is no guaranteed money coming with Carr and he’s the better player. Buying on Carr now may put a ceiling on the 2020 team but it gives the Bears a reasonably priced, above-average QB through 2022. It effectively extends this team’s competitive window. If you go with Mitch you’re basically doubling-down on him and hoping you can win in 2020 because after that he’ll either be gone or he’ll get a Goff type deal. Nothing I’ve seen from Mitch makes me confident in betting on him to lead the Bears to a super bowl in 2020. Making halfhearted attempts to address the QB problem will just ensure the Bears stay on a slow path towards rebuilding. Or he'll be bad enough to get them in position for Fields or Lawrence in 2021. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 The Bears offense was hilariously inept in 2019 and they still finished even and still would be drafting 19th. It's hard to imagine the Bears being worse in 2020, or at least worse-enough to get either of those guys. Or, what would it take for the Bears to end up drafting in the top 5? Mack, Hicks, Robinson, Whitehair, Jackson all getting hurt? If we're going for either of those QBs it's with a trade, and people are going to lose their goddamn minds if that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, abstract_thought said: The choice between Foles at 15M and Carr at 19M is really straightforward. IIRC there is no guaranteed money coming with Carr and he’s the better player. Buying on Carr now may put a ceiling on the 2020 team but it gives the Bears a reasonably priced, above-average QB through 2022. It effectively extends this team’s competitive window. If you go with Mitch you’re basically doubling-down on him and hoping you can win in 2020 because after that he’ll either be gone or he’ll get a Goff type deal. Nothing I’ve seen from Mitch makes me confident in betting on him to lead the Bears to a super bowl in 2020. Making halfhearted attempts to address the QB problem will just ensure the Bears stay on a slow path towards rebuilding. To be clear my only interest in Foles is either if he’s released (unlikely) or if he’s bringing a high draft pick to Chicago with him. I’d consider taking Foles AND a 2nd or 3rd round pick over Carr even though Carr is the better player. The difference is that Carr means Mitch is out which makes it less likely where Foles is more a buy on an open competition which I think is more palatable for Pace especially with nothing owed to either guy beyond 2020 and with extra valuable draft capital in his pocket regardless the outcome with which to somewhat offset the heightened QB salary with higher tier cost-controlled prospects. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said: The Bears offense was hilariously inept in 2019 and they still finished even and still would be drafting 19th. It's hard to imagine the Bears being worse in 2020, or at least worse-enough to get either of those guys. Or, what would it take for the Bears to end up drafting in the top 5? Mack, Hicks, Robinson, Whitehair, Jackson all getting hurt? If we're going for either of those QBs it's with a trade, and people are going to lose their goddamn minds if that happens. I’ll never understand people who get upset at a team selling out to draft what they think is their next franchise QB. It may work out or it may not but settling for mediocrity or castoffs from elsewhere without going for a true solution is just unacceptable. Lamenting Angelo’s decision to trade for Cutler or Pace’s decision to do what he did to draft Mitch is just silly. Both identified the problem and made a balls out big move to try to get the guy they saw as a true long term solution. I’ll always respect that kind of bold move even if I end up not liking the outcome. That’s why I’m incredibly cool on the idea of some half measure bring in a 2nd or 3rd tier guy who happens to be available thing this offseason. Derek Carr in all likelihood tops out as a top 10-15 QB in the NFL. That’s fine for 2020 but long term that’s not consistently putting you in position for winning titles. If we end up mortgagOmg a future 1 and 2 to move from 13 to 3 to move up to draft Justin Fields in the 2021 draft or something like that then so be it. When it comes to finding a true franchise QB the cost is never too high, and I would 100 times out of 100 rather we try and miss than half *** it and hope to fall into it. In the same light I’m totally fine with letting Mitch play out 2020 and get one last shot at being the guy. The physical tools are clearly there. The moxie is clearly there. The work ethic is clearly there. He just needs to put it all together. Does he? I don’t know. But I know what Dalton and Carr and Bridgewater are and none have nearly the ceiling Mitch does if he manages to put it together, and I’d rather roll with that with the fallback option being to pick the next franchise QB of the future next year if it goes bad. The only thing that could make the Mitch over Watson and Mahomes thing (more Watson cuz he was my guy that draft) worse for me is if we cut bait now only to see Mitch move on and achieve his potential elsewhere. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: I’ll never understand people who get upset at a team selling out to draft what they think is their next franchise QB. It may work out or it may not but settling for mediocrity or castoffs from elsewhere without going for a true solution is just unacceptable. Lamenting Angelo’s decision to trade for Cutler or Pace’s decision to do what he did to draft Mitch is just silly. Both identified the problem and made a balls out big move to try to get the guy they saw as a true long term solution. I’ll always respect that kind of bold move even if I end up not liking the outcome. That’s why I’m incredibly cool on the idea of some half measure bring in a 2nd or 3rd tier guy who happens to be available thing this offseason. Derek Carr in all likelihood tops out as a top 10-15 QB in the NFL. That’s fine for 2020 but long term that’s not consistently putting you in position for winning titles. If we end up mortgagOmg a future 1 and 2 to move from 13 to 3 to move up to draft Justin Fields in the 2021 draft or something like that then so be it. When it comes to finding a true franchise QB the cost is never too high, and I would 100 times out of 100 rather we try and miss than half *** it and hope to fall into it. In the same light I’m totally fine with letting Mitch play out 2020 and get one last shot at being the guy. The physical tools are clearly there. The moxie is clearly there. The work ethic is clearly there. He just needs to put it all together. Does he? I don’t know. But I know what Dalton and Carr and Bridgewater are and none have nearly the ceiling Mitch does if he manages to put it together, and I’d rather roll with that with the fallback option being to pick the next franchise QB of the future next year if it goes bad. The only thing that could make the Mitch over Watson and Mahomes thing (more Watson cuz he was my guy that draft) worse for me is if we cut bait now only to see Mitch move on and achieve his potential elsewhere. And that's where I'm at. Despite what seems to be a hatred for Trubisky on my end, it's not that. I just think he sucks. I think he can't play at all. I'd make that move and the Cutler deal 10 times out of 10. I have a friend who works for the Bears. I won't say where or in what capacity, but he confirmed everything you said- the players love him (but most don't think he can play either) as a person and his work ethic is second to none. For that reason, fine. Let him play. If he's bad enough and with the luck of a few injuries, Lawrence or Fields become an option. If he figures it out, they have a chance to win the conference. If he's like he was last year and they finish with 7-9 wins, that'll be the unfortunate one. Then Pace and Nagy stay and they're picking ~16th and now what? Sure, they could move up into the top 5, but is that really what we want: Pace taking another QB based on his history? Edited February 7, 2020 by beardown3231 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 If we are going to end the Trubisky experiment, which I do not think they are, I would go after Teddy. He does not cost a 2nd round pick and I do not think he has some of the limitations that Carr has shown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 I have no problem with Pace taking MT. It was a gutsy move that has not worked out. Compounded by other two first round QBs being much better to date. One is looking like he is one of best ever. Actually Blazers decision not to take Michael Jordan made a ton of sense at time. They had a great sure fire HOF player at same position and league was dominated by big men at time. Sometimes history just makes a fool of you through little fault of your own. My problem is with failing to make gutsy moves to move on from players earlier that are highly paid and are under performing. It is harsh, but that is real key to being a great NFL GM. Long is one example. Floyd is another. Prince is another (his play dropped off last year). MT is tougher call because there is no QB tree. You have to get a really lucky situation like Grappolo to 49ers or Manning to Denver. Much more often you have to develop a good one you drafted. Mostly you have to be drafting really high to get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 I mean Grappolo, who most are saying is quite good, was garbage with a guy in his face. MT faced that seemingly every play all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, dll2000 said: I mean Grappolo, who most are saying is quite good, was garbage with a guy in his face. MT faced that seemingly every play all year. Didn't the analytics say that Trubisky had the 6th most time to throw this year or something? Or am I wrong on that? I thought I read that in some capacity of the OL this past season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 1 minute ago, beardown3231 said: Didn't the analytics say that Trubisky had the 6th most time to throw this year or something? Or am I wrong on that? I thought I read that in some capacity of the OL this past season. You watched the games didn’t you? I don’t know what the analysts say, but guys were missing blocks left and right this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, dll2000 said: You watched the games didn’t you? I don’t know what the analysts say, but guys were missing blocks left and right this year. Of course, but from my understanding OL play has been down all over the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 18 hours ago, beardown3231 said: Of course, but from my understanding OL play has been down all over the league. It has been an ongoing problem. I have stated for over a decade OL is a major problem. Here is the underlying reason. Coaches at lower levels put best big athletes at DL or possibly TE. Leftovers go to OL. When you do that through the farm system and get to elite level of NFL difference is very marked. NFL spends no money or time on developing players past college. You get training camp and that’s it. That’s a month. There needs to be a way to teach elite athletes a new position, in other words transition some DL to OL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 A lot of teams had bad Oline play, but Bears was exceptionally bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 1 hour ago, dll2000 said: A lot of teams had bad Oline play, but Bears was exceptionally bad. If you look at the OLs in the playoffs, specifically the ones with non elite QBs. They have very good OLs. The Bears will not have an elite QB anytime soon, but they can build and elite OL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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