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General off-season discussion/plan thread

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2 hours ago, StevenK said:

Do we try and sign Norman to fix our DB concern? Or does he ask for too much? 

Norman doesn't 'fix' anything but I'd kick the tires if he's willing to take a paycut to win. He'd have to beat out both Moseley and Spoon but he would bring great experience and depth to group. But he isn't a lomg-term answer by any means. He could be a good fit in the scheme though, especially as a back-up.

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7 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Norman doesn't 'fix' anything but I'd kick the tires if he's willing to take a paycut to win. He'd have to beat out both Moseley and Spoon but he would bring great experience and depth to group. But he isn't a lomg-term answer by any means. He could be a good fit in the scheme though, especially as a back-up.

I'd take him as a 1 year, 1 million type flier for sure. I like him as this years version of Jason Verrett, tbh. He's got a lot of history in Carolina with a similar defense. I think he's mostly toast, but you never know. A competent defense around him could work wonders. 

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1 hour ago, 757-NINER said:

Norman doesn't 'fix' anything but I'd kick the tires if he's willing to take a paycut to win. He'd have to beat out both Moseley and Spoon but he would bring great experience and depth to group. But he isn't a lomg-term answer by any means. He could be a good fit in the scheme though, especially as a back-up.

I agree about longevity. I wasn’t considering him for the long term fix at DB. Just an additional corner so we wouldn’t necessarily have to waste a pick especially bc we don’t have a lot of picks already. 

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3 minutes ago, StevenK said:

I agree about longevity. I wasn’t considering him for the long term fix at DB. Just an additional corner so we wouldn’t necessarily have to waste a pick especially bc we don’t have a lot of picks already. 

I don't think he's the type of guy that wants to come in and ride the bench. I also am not sure if we need him in the lockerroom

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1 hour ago, N4L said:

I don't think he's the type of guy that wants to come in and ride the bench. I also am not sure if we need him in the lockerroom

Norman is much like Sherman. Great for the lockeroom, just doesn't hold any punches with the opposition and media.

And he's not in a position to expect a starting position on a championship roster. Now he can probably go somewhere like Detriot or Miami and walk through the door and be penciled in as a starter. But he's not Sherman in that he hasn't kept up his level of play as he has aged. For most playoff type rosters, he's going to have to earn a starting spot. Like I said, if he's willing to humble himself, take a paycut and battle it out to start to a championship defense, I wouldn't be mad if we brought him on board. I think he could still help out any defense. Especially a scheme like ours. 

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I would definitely prefer Hargreaves over Norman. Just the type of guy to take a 1 year prove it deal to try to come in, up his value and hit free agency again in 2021. Might not be up for the comp against Moseley and Spoon but he'd be a good fit for the scheme. Could really thrive with our pass-rush.  The market will determine where he lands but he could be a guy that falls through the cracks and winds up being a great value signing. 

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I saw an article on Bleacher that mentioned if we don't retain Ward, we should go after Haha Clinton-Dix. I would think Haha fits more of Tartt's role than Ward really and I don't think we would necessarily go after him.Thoughts?

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2 hours ago, StevenK said:

I saw an article on Bleacher that mentioned if we don't retain Ward, we should go after Haha Clinton-Dix. I would think Haha fits more of Tartt's role than Ward really and I don't think we would necessarily go after him.Thoughts?

Ha Ha is a solid FS but he has his warts. Misses his share of tackles and has had issues with angles to the ball and not being discpline in coverage. He could come here and fit right in but he could also be a downgrade. His career has been up and down....much like Ward before this year. He has more than one year worth of production unlike Ward though. But if you can afford Ha Ha, you can afford Ward. They're going to command the same amount of money pretty much. I think he's younger than Ward so he has that going for him.

Edited by 757-NINER

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according to spotrac we have 19.3m in space and that appears to be after the kwon extension.

reducing mckinnon's base salary from 6.5m to 500k (non guaranteed vet min) will obviously give us another 6m (basically same as if we cut him as post june 1st cut, which would have saved us 6.5m, still could if we cut him later). 

Cutting goodwin saves 3.3m (again, post june 1st designation, which allows us to spread dead space over 2 years)

So that would be 28.6m after those two obvious moves. 

Restructuring Garoppolo would give us 15.9m in additional space but would mean roughly basically 19m in dead space next year if we got rid of him (or 9.5 each season for post june 1st cut. that brings us to 44.9m. 

Cutting coleman would save us 4.9m ----> 49.4m without breaking a sweat. would tie us to garoppolo for 2 seasons at least, realistically 3 though.

Signing buck could lower his cap hit by 4-5 million if we are comfortable locking ourselves in with him for a long time. 

 

R U N  I T  B A C K 

REVENGE TOUR 2020

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15 hours ago, N4L said:

according to spotrac we have 19.3m in space and that appears to be after the kwon extension.

reducing mckinnon's base salary from 6.5m to 500k (non guaranteed vet min) will obviously give us another 6m (basically same as if we cut him as post june 1st cut, which would have saved us 6.5m, still could if we cut him later). 

Cutting goodwin saves 3.3m (again, post june 1st designation, which allows us to spread dead space over 2 years)

So that would be 28.6m after those two obvious moves. 

Restructuring Garoppolo would give us 15.9m in additional space but would mean roughly basically 19m in dead space next year if we got rid of him (or 9.5 each season for post june 1st cut. that brings us to 44.9m. 

Cutting coleman would save us 4.9m ----> 49.4m without breaking a sweat. would tie us to garoppolo for 2 seasons at least, realistically 3 though.

Signing buck could lower his cap hit by 4-5 million if we are comfortable locking ourselves in with him for a long time. 

 

R U N  I T  B A C K 

REVENGE TOUR 2020

Paraag "N4L" Marathe!!!!! 

Still think we let Ward go. Maiocco said if the 49ers can create enough space to tag Armstead, then they can just sign him to a LT deal, which both parties want. 

Sanders will be the interesting one. He provided some stability to the receiving core and can still play and shouldn't be too expensive. But still 50/50 on him returning.

But yeah, we can create some cap this offseason fairly easy. But have to be careful with the restructures and don't want to be screwed down the line. Though Jimmy one is perfectly reasonable and probably likely. 

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15 hours ago, N4L said:

Restructuring Garoppolo would give us 15.9m in additional space but would mean roughly basically 19m in dead space next year if we got rid of him (or 9.5 each season for post june 1st cut. that brings us to 44.9m. 

 

I am hoping that we don't do this, but I will admit that I would totally understand it if they did it. 

In general, I'm also not a fan of post june 1 cuts. Just eat it off the top . 

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3 minutes ago, Forge said:

I am hoping that we don't do this, but I will admit that I would totally understand it if they did it. 

In general, I'm also not a fan of post june 1 cuts. Just eat it off the top . 

What is our history with that? Do we do many post-June 1 cuts? Don't know many off the top of my head. 

 

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Just now, J-ALL-DAY said:

What is our history with that? Do we do many post-June 1 cuts? Don't know many off the top of my head. 

 

Not typically. We don't give out huge bonuses like that, so it usually doesn't impact us. When we were bad, we just mostly cut people outright because money wasn't an issue. Most of the time our post june 1 cuts are just people that we legitimately cut after june 1 lol. 

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1 hour ago, Forge said:

I am hoping that we don't do this, but I will admit that I would totally understand it if they did it. 

Yeah, it creates 16 mil this year but makes his cap 8m higher next year, so he will be 33m against the cap next year and the year after, so definitely not great from that standpoint. I think we don't have much of a choice though (outside of letting AA walk/trading him), I tried to find someone else to do this with, kinda tough. Could sign juice to an extension but it wont do that much for us this year. Other than that we don't really have many players to restructure that make it worth it. 

We also don't need to do this for his entire base salary, could do only a portion of it and free up less space but then have smaller hits next year. Could free up 10m for example instead of 15.9

1 hour ago, Forge said:

In general, I'm also not a fan of post june 1 cuts. Just eat it off the top .

Well, the math basically works out the same because of the roll over. If we do post june 1st cut, split the money over two years, then end up not spending it this year, the savings from this year roll over will pay for next years dead space. So from that standpoint, I really don't see a reason not to do it. Worst case, its the same. Best case, we are able to use the money to keep 1-2 more players this year. 

1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Still think we let Ward go. Maiocco said if the 49ers can create enough space to tag Armstead, then they can just sign him to a LT deal, which both parties want. 

Yeah, I almost added that 50m didn't quite feel like enough for armstead, kittle, ward, sanders, role players (breida, bourne, D.moore, blair, garland etc) + rookies. Buckner extension could save us money but I would only want to structure it that way in lieu of restructuring Garoppolo depending on what other moves we make. The more I think about it the more I realize that ward is probably gone, so youre right about that one most likely. Crazy how 1 year changes things. None of us wanted him to be our FS last year and now none of us want him to leave. Glad for him either way though. 

Would really like to sign DJ jones to a LTD as well. Guys entering the last year of their rookie deal after a season ending injury tend to be easier to negotiate with. He was phenomenal last year and a huge part of our rotation. Perfect guy to pair with buck in the middle as he is a true NT whereas buck is 100% a UT. I guess we could try and get solly to fill this role, but adding 2 years onto DJ's deal right now for 5-7m plus a couple million signing bonus makes perfect sense. Give the guy a few dollars now and get a guy who will likely out preform his deal later. If we don't bring back AA, then this is a no-brainer, and we honestly should do the same with solly too in this scenario, could save us 2 million this year if we tacked on another 2 years to his deal and converted base salary to signing bonus

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On 2/15/2020 at 9:45 AM, StevenK said:

I saw an article on Bleacher that mentioned if we don't retain Ward, we should go after Haha Clinton-Dix. I would think Haha fits more of Tartt's role than Ward really and I don't think we would necessarily go after him.Thoughts?

Dude misses tackles like a fat kid eats cake. 

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