Forge Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Just now, J-ALL-DAY said: Thanks, in that case you will see a lot of one year deals then. Increases our chances of retaining Ward. Sanders likely still wants a multi-year deal with his age and Armstead is already fine playing with the tag. Maybe because his agent knew this was coming and knew he would get even more money in 2021 if for some reason he couldn't sign a long-term deal with SF? You could also see more suppressed multi year deals with big future year guarantees. Like, you give Armstead a solid SB so he gets money off the top, a vet minimum base in year one, then guarantee year 2's salary at like 20 million or something expecting a huge jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49erurtaza Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Forge said: You could also see more suppressed multi year deals with big future year guarantees. Like, you give Armstead a solid SB so he gets money off the top, a vet minimum base in year one, then guarantee year 2's salary at like 20 million or something expecting a huge jump. Yup this, really moving the big money into 2021 and 2022 with a low amount this year is more likely then shorter deals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49erurtaza Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 We talk about Kittles contract but what does Buckner's look like with the new CBA. Is he asking for over 23 mil a year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 31 minutes ago, Forge said: You could also see more suppressed multi year deals with big future year guarantees. Like, you give Armstead a solid SB so he gets money off the top, a vet minimum base in year one, then guarantee year 2's salary at like 20 million or something expecting a huge jump. Interesting, then we can see some big splash moves this offseason from teams. Jimmy's contract is also going to look pretty damn cheap with the cap increase. As stated, this is perfect timing for us as this is our SB window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49erurtaza Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Forge said: Shouldn't do anything this year. The Revenue used to determine the cap in 2020 should be that which has already been received. Eventually, it will help increase the cap, but shouldn't factor in 2020. not necessarily true. players are supposed to receive a higher % of the revenue, so even though last years revenue is set, the cap may rise more than it would normally Could also be part of the carrot to get the players to sign the deal this year rather than next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, N4L said: not necessarily true. players are supposed to receive a higher % of the revenue, so even though last years revenue is set, the cap may rise more than it would normally Could also be part of the carrot to get the players to sign the deal this year rather than next. There is no "normally" when it comes to the cap. It's based on the revenue. If the revenue increased by more than what it has in recent years, the cap will go up next year by more than it has recently (typically around 10 million). If revenue growth slowed, but still increased, the cap would increase by an amount probably less than what it has recently. If the revenue that is used to determine the cap has already been decided and calculated, this should have no impact on the cap unless they are making an exception or change that is out of the ordinary, which is not something anyone can predict or should expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ftn49 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 49 minutes ago, Forge said: There is no "normally" when it comes to the cap. It's based on the revenue. If the revenue increased by more than what it has in recent years, the cap will go up next year by more than it has recently (typically around 10 million). If revenue growth slowed, but still increased, the cap would increase by an amount probably less than what it has recently. If the revenue that is used to determine the cap has already been decided and calculated, this should have no impact on the cap unless they are making an exception or change that is out of the ordinary, which is not something anyone can predict or should expect. They did increase the percentage the players take though so that would case the increase even if the revenue doesn't change. Though with me just glancing at the old one the percentage was 47 to 48.5 before whereas now they are offering 48. I guess I'm not sure what would have caused the escalation/variation in the old cba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 30 minutes ago, Ftn49 said: They did increase the percentage the players take though so that would case the increase even if the revenue doesn't change. Though with me just glancing at the old one the percentage was 47 to 48.5 before whereas now they are offering 48. I guess I'm not sure what would have caused the escalation/variation in the old cba. But that would take affect the first year of the new CBA. The current cba does not expire until after the 2020 season. If that increase was built into the old CBA, then the new one doesn't have any impact on the player's portion for this season with regards to the cap ceiling and that change was always going to take place regardless. Does that make sense? If part of the new CBA alters part of the existing CBA, that would be weird...though I suppose possible, and I can't really account for that at the current point in time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ftn49 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Forge said: But that would take affect the first year of the new CBA. The current cba does not expire until after the 2020 season. If that increase was built into the old CBA, then the new one doesn't have any impact on the player's portion for this season with regards to the cap ceiling and that change was always going to take place regardless. Does that make sense? If part of the new CBA alters part of the existing CBA, that would be weird...though I suppose possible, and I can't really account for that at the current point in time Yes, but I could have sworn that I heard that the owners were saying that if the union ratified it it would take effect this season. I could totally be wrong, but I swear I read that somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49ersfan Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 5 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Interesting, then we can see some big splash moves this offseason from teams. Jimmy's contract is also going to look pretty damn cheap with the cap increase. As stated, this is perfect timing for us as this is our SB window. I was just thinking about our window. Obviously our drafting, fa signings, roster/cap management etc all are big. But its the coaching that gives me the most hope. Just look at Kyle - as OC, took a Browns team that has been awful otherwise to a 7-9 season, took the Redskins to a playoff berth, took the Falcons to the SB. And now as HC, took the Niners to the SB. His playcalling and scheming are great but i also like how he's built a great culture, has a solid coaching staff, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Forge said: There is no "normally" when it comes to the cap. It's based on the revenue. If the revenue increased by more than what it has in recent years, the cap will go up next year by more than it has recently (typically around 10 million). If revenue growth slowed, but still increased, the cap would increase by an amount probably less than what it has recently. If the revenue that is used to determine the cap has already been decided and calculated, this should have no impact on the cap unless they are making an exception or change that is out of the ordinary, which is not something anyone can predict or should expect. I'm saying that the cap increase is a derivative of the increase in revenue. If revenue stays the same, but the % of the revenue split increases, that it would mean the cap would increase More simply put, the revenue from last season is already set. If the players get a higher percentage of the leagues revenue, then the cap will increase more this year under a new cba than it would under the old cba If the new cba gets ratified and goes into effect immediately, then the cap will rise this year by a higher percentage than it would under a 'normal year' where there is no new cba Using generic numbers - If revenue is 100 billion for 2019 and players are supposed to get 50%, then they are entitled to 50 billion. If revenue is 100 billion and they get 51%, then they are entitled to 51 billion. If revenue in 2018 was 90 billion, then the increase for players under old cba (50%) would be 5 billion, or 11% increase. Under the new cba(51%), the increase would be 6 billion (45 to 51) or 13% So, the new cba could raise this year's cap by more than the 'normal' amount, despite the fact that revenue is still based on a 16 game season Edited February 22, 2020 by N4L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Forge said: But that would take affect the first year of the new CBA. The current cba does not expire until after the 2020 season. If that increase was built into the old CBA, then the new one doesn't have any impact on the player's portion for this season with regards to the cap ceiling and that change was always going to take place regardless. Does that make sense? If part of the new CBA alters part of the existing CBA, that would be weird...though I suppose possible, and I can't really account for that at the current point in time The new CBA should supersede the existing one. would be very easy to add language stipulating as such. 17 games for example would take effect immediately, as would the changes to the drug policy. Its very very simple "if new cba is inconsistent or conflict with old cba, then new cba shall control". That is ripped directly from a contract that a lawyer wrote for me recently (changing one word to new cba/old cba obviously). I don't see a reason why it wouldn't take effect this year tbh Edited February 22, 2020 by N4L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 @N4L you really just wrote a whole lot to say what I've been saying to I guess argue semantics? I'm not really sure lol Currently, the old cba is in effect for the 2020 season. That cap will be determined by the revenue which has already happened, and therefore that formula and determination will already be known. Under this premise, the new cba has nothing to do with the cap in the immediate season and therefore would not impact the immediate season, which was what J was asking about. If the new cba supercedes the current cba in it's final year, then my answer to the original question is no longer applicable since it's based on the premise of the original / current CBA which is expiring after 2020. That goes without saying, though nothing has been said to my knowledge that this will happen and I see no reason to assume that it would at the current point in time. My answer to J is based on how it currently is set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudyZ Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 I think the big increase in revenue won't be caused by the 17th game, but by the next TV deal. I expect no increase in 2020, because the numbers are all set, the schedule is being made with 16 games in mind, etc. Maybe in 2021 we get a 17 games schedule, which should increase revenue a little. But the real big increase will be when the new tv deal kicks in, and I think I read that would be in 2023, no? In any case, I don't think we should go into this offseason with a big raise of the salary cap in mind. When we know for sure that we are getting additional cap room, then we can use that extra money to re-sign our own guys with the future in mind. As soon as these guys are paid, we can turn our attention to adding to the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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