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General off-season discussion/plan thread

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8 hours ago, Forge said:

This is how good teams get bad in a hurry. i don't mind replacing him with a buy low guy that has a good ceiling in free agency, but you can't let him walk and then plan on replacing him with Taylor / Thomas and Givens. That's just a really bad notion. Right now, you're hoping that any of those guys can even live up to the bottom range of AA's play. I agree with you that there is a sweet spot here that is tricky. Like, I think that there is a  good chance that this was AA's career year from a pass rushing perspective, but he's an extremely high quality, all around player, even if you assume that his baseline moving forward is 6-8 sacks (think Trey Flowers with NE). 

There's no way this teams gets 'bad' by moving on from one DT who had a career year....in his contract year, no less...

These are the burdens of success. Everybody can't get paid and tough decisions have to be made. 

No one...and I mean NO ONE was calling AA a 'extremely high quality, all-around player' before this season....

Notice I said mix in those three names with a vet that will more than likely be named the starter. 

Losing Armstead won't be as detrimental as some think. Not when you still have DeFo and not if we bring in the right vet. A finding a 3rd DE capable of starting is more of a priority than keeping Armstead IMO. Going after a guy like Robert Quinn would be more of a priority for me over spending the money it would take to bring back Armstead.

 

Edited by 757-NINER

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6 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

There's no way this teams gets 'bad' by moving on from one DT who had a career year....in his contract year, no less...

 

Sure there is, when you're replacing very good play with not good play...especially when that derives from taking a chance on a 300 pound 1-tech, an undrafted free agent heading into his second season, and a sizable top 3 draft bust. You'd have to get the right free agent, because just banking on those guys to make up for that production is far too big of a risk and assumption. 

6 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

No one...and I mean NO ONE was calling AA a 'extremely high quality, all-around' player before this season....

 

Doesn't matter. What we got from him this season, and one of the reasons that we were as good as we were defensively is because he gave us high quality, all around play. Losing that, in any shape or form (which includes him not being able to replicate said career season) is detrimental to this team moving forward. I don't think that you just pop out his play from this year and just assume that the defense is the exact same moving forward. 

6 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Notice I said mix in those three names with a vet that will more than likely be named the starter. 

 

Notice I said that I agree with the notion of the free agent if you find the right one. 

7 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Losing Armstead won't be a detrimental as some think. Not when you still have DeFo and not if we bring in the right vet. A finding a 3rd DE capable of starting is more of a priority than keeping Armstead IMO..

It absolutely could be. But you can also possibly coax production out of a similar player in this scheme with the talent around him. I'm not going to bank on that from the three in house candidates you named, but lis, I would listen to certain free agency types.

Bottom line is, regardless, there is a good chance this defense is not as good next year by just taking AA's production from this year out of the equation. And that is regardless of whether or not we bring AA back, to be quite honest because I think that was his career season. That's why I said that this is a tricky scenario. 

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31 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

I've repeated this seems like every year since Shanny's arrival but one area fans should never worry about is WR. He will coax production out of that unit regardless. Doesn't have to be a slew of household names and faces. Last position on the roster I'm worried about it personally...

Are you sure about that? Serious question, because the receivers were a black hole in 2018, and in 2019 they were so bad that we had to go out and get Manny. 

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6 minutes ago, Forge said:

Are you sure about that? Serious question, because the receivers were a black hole in 2018, and in 2019 they were so bad that we had to go out and get Manny. 

I'm a bit conflicted with Manny. He'll be 32 next year but if we don't keep him then we won't have much outside of Deebo.

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3 minutes ago, Forge said:

Are you sure about that? Serious question, because the receivers were a black hole in 2018, and in 2019 they were so bad that we had to go out and get Manny. 

They were not bad, they were just young imo. Sanders coming in stabilize the unit and the younger guys needed a vet to kind of learn from. But talent wise no, I don't see them as being bad. They were dropping alot of catchable passes. Not really a talent thing as much as its a execution thing. All that seem to disappear when Manny came into the fold.

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2 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

One thing about all our losses at the end where the defense wasn't able to make big late game stops happened not coincidentally when we lost all our DL depth. When Jones/Blair/Moore/etc went down. It is very important to build better DL depth even if we are able to bring Armstead back. That is a MUST.

I agree that Ward likely will be gone. Moore though I have a lot of confidence in. Not nearly as good of a tackler as Ward, but he has the potential to be a ball hawking safety. 

LB core is set for a while and no worries there.

Can use another corner and hope Spoon gets back to form before he lost his confidence. But at this point you can't trust him, just have to let him earn his spot.

Offensively, our bookends are really good and our swing tackle in Brunskill is awesome, but need to make upgrades to the interior. I'm sorry, but any good interior DL really wrecked us late in the season. 

WR wise, try to bring back Sanders. Then Hurd will be there and Taylor possibly will be healthy finally. If Sanders leaves, try to sign a solid FA WR or take one in the draft.

RBs are fine but can take a chance at a late rounder.

Overall though, this team is stacked. Don't need to make too many changes/upgrades. Just have to hope for health and growth from Jimmy G. We will be right back in the hunt next season. Enjoy this stretch!

So much on board with this. I'm sure that the loss has a ton of people struggling to see through the fog, but this organization should be solid for a long while.

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If the NFL is rigged then we are winning it all next year in Tampa. I mean Lynch could win a SB and get his HOF bid in the city that he made his career in...

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3 minutes ago, clarkfn2284 said:

So much on board with this. I'm sure that the loss has a ton of people struggling to see through the fog, but this organization should be solid for a long while.

Should be. An okay quarterback with an elite offensive minded HC cures a lot of ills. It should be at least a 3 year window I would think, if not longer (obviously still have to hit on some things draft wise, free agency wise, etc). 

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1 hour ago, PapaShogun said:

Yeah it does suck. We need weapons. 

Id love to trade up and grab Jamar Chase

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2 minutes ago, Forge said:

Should be. An okay quarterback with an elite offensive minded HC cures a lot of ills. It should be at least a 3 year window I would think, if not longer (obviously still have to hit on some things draft wise, free agency wise, etc). 

Yeah, you have to imagine that this young core has a 3 to 4 year run. With good drafts, they can then extend it from there. One thing I am curious to see is what they do with Sherman after next season. If he plays at the same level he did this season and he still wants to play, do you bring him back and at what number? Obviously the skills should be diminishing more, but he is still very good. A lot will depend on what they develop at the position going forward as well.

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3 hours ago, Forge said:

Sure there is, when you're replacing very good play with not good play...especially when that derives from taking a chance on a 300 pound 1-tech, an undrafted free agent heading into his second season, and a sizable top 3 draft bust. You'd have to get the right free agent, because just banking on those guys to make up for that production is far too big of a risk and assumption. 

Doesn't matter. What we got from him this season, and one of the reasons that we were as good as we were defensively is because he gave us high quality, all around play. Losing that, in any shape or form (which includes him not being able to replicate said career season) is detrimental to this team moving forward. I don't think that you just pop out his play from this year and just assume that the defense is the exact same moving forward. 

Notice I said that I agree with the notion of the free agent if you find the right one. 

It absolutely could be. But you can also possibly coax production out of a similar player in this scheme with the talent around him. I'm not going to bank on that from the three in house candidates you named, but lis, I would listen to certain free agency types.

Bottom line is, regardless, there is a good chance this defense is not as good next year by just taking AA's production from this year out of the equation. And that is regardless of whether or not we bring AA back, to be quite honest because I think that was his career season. That's why I said that this is a tricky scenario. 

We're talking in circles. If you and I are both in agreement that likelihood of AA ever replicating this season is a long-shot than what is the argument really? Bring him back because he's good and the other guys we use to replace him won't be as good? I mean sure ok...but that can be the argument for every position ever. 

You have to place your priorities somewhere. For me, having two bookend 3Ts is not as important to this defense as having a consistent edge pressure. We saw this first hand when Ford was hurt. The D-Line and pressure it generated was pretty much Bosa and that was it. Both AA and DeFo failed to step-up their interior win rate once Ford went down and we were not as successful disrupting the pocket.

I don't think we can ever trust Ford to stay healthy for a full 16 game season and post season run. History has shown us this. His body just isn't able to hold up. I think we were extremely lucky to have Bosa healthy all year. We need better playable depth on the edge. I do like the little I saw from Zettiel but we need another potential starting caliber DE. That to me, is more important than staying pat at DT.

Now if we have the money to do both that would be fantastic. But if I was forced to choose, I'm letting AA walk and taking that money and finding me another edge rusher and letting the chips fall where they may.

If I had to chose between re-signing AA or taking that money and signing Suh & Quinn or Brockers & Quinn, I'm going with the latter...no hesitation.

Edited by 757-NINER

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This was Sherman's 2nd of two years correct? What does everyone think will happen with him?

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17 minutes ago, 49ers2015 said:

This was Sherman's 2nd of two years correct? What does everyone think will happen with him?

If he comes back great if not Idc hes getting older and has lost a step

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23 minutes ago, 49ers2015 said:

This was Sherman's 2nd of two years correct? What does everyone think will happen with him?

No, I believe 2021 is his last year contractually. 

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Don't see any way Sherm is not back. But we do need to plan for the future at that position. Wanna give Mosely an off-season to improve and not ready to wright off Spoon just yet. But I'd like to make him earn his role for next yr.

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