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Bolts223

How would Mahomes be if he was drafted by the Texans/Bears? How would Watson/Trubisky be if they were drafted by the Chiefs/Texans?

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Just now, patriotsheatyan said:

O'Brien has winning seasons with Hoyer, Fitzpatrick, and Osweiler. What’s this about not being able to hide a QB?

I mean none of them played well under him.

Osweiler looked much better in the Denver offense than he did in the Houston one.

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Mahomes is in the midst of a repeat last night if the Bears drafted him.

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1 minute ago, Bolts223 said:

I mean none of them played well under him.

Osweiler looked much better in the Denver offense than he did in the Houston one.

Hoyer and Fitzpatrick had decent numbers and winning records. O’Brien isn’t capable of making them accurate, giving them arm strength or mobility, or making Fitzpatrick a good decision maker. He can’t actually make them look good.

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7 minutes ago, patriotsheatyan said:

Hoyer and Fitzpatrick had decent numbers and winning records. O’Brien isn’t capable of making them accurate, giving them arm strength or mobility, or making Fitzpatrick a good decision maker. He can’t actually make them look good.

Hoyer had better numbers the next season with the Bears.

Fitzpatrick is just bipolar and is impossible to predict.

 

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Wasn’t Mahomes seen as a project QB who had to be developed by good coaching in order to correct some of the things in his play style that wouldn’t work in the NFL? It’s impossible to tell how much having Reid, Smith, and a full year to sit and learn helped him. On another team I’m sure he’d still be pretty good, but maybe not the transcendent talent he is if he gets thrown into the fire on the first week of his rookie season with a terrible coach and supporting cast. 

Him dropping back 10 yards behind that Texans O-line would have often ended up very badly

Edited by jonnguy2015

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2 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

O'Brien has winning seasons with Hoyer, Fitzpatrick, and Osweiler. What’s this about not being able to hide a QB?

When I talk about Reid being more equipped to hide or handle a bad QB, I'm thinking like the Reid/Smith offenses, where Reid took a limited QB, enabled his strengths, masked his weaknesses, and had an annually top 10 scoring offense without a great QB. The 2018 Bears were a similar deal. They had a subpar QB, but with their use of guys like Cohen, their use of Trubisky's mobility, etc., they came out with a top 10 scoring offense.

Those BOB teams with Hoyer, Fitz, and Os were not that. Those were not years where BOB crafted an offense around the deficiencies at QB and made something beneficial to the team. Those were years where the QB sucked and the offense sucked, but the defense was good enough that it could drag the passing offense kicking and screaming to a 9 win season because the division was bad enough.

Basically, I'm not talking about winning with a less than ideal QB, I'm talking about actually creating a functional offense with a less than ideal QB. If you give BOB Trubisky and he gets the production of 2016 Brock Osweiler out of him, that's an objective failure as an offensive coach.

The crucial phrase in my post that you seem to have missed, is where I said "Reid is more equipped to hide Trubisky's faults." Not hide Trubisky, but hide Trubisky's faults. It's not the coach most capable of riding a defense to victories instead of their QB, but the coach most capable of working around a QB's flaws. I don't think BOB has shown to be that, just because he had a few 9-7 seasons riding the defense to slightly above mediocrity.

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6 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

O'Brien has winning seasons with Hoyer, Fitzpatrick, and Osweiler. What’s this about not being able to hide a QB?

When you're getting six wins against bad Tennessee, Jacksonville and Indianapolis teams - "winning seasons" doesn't hold as much muster as it should.

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6 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said:

Hoyer and Fitzpatrick had decent numbers and winning records.

Look at the level of competiton that season for the Texans. Both Jacksonville and Tennessee were picking top 5, and Indianapolis was good for a split at best.

You're also forgetting that was when JJ Watt was racking up 20+ sacks to go with a few pick sixes and fumble sixes. You had THAT on defense, and the best you can do is 9-7?

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12 hours ago, PapaShogun said:

And Mahomes would still make it work lol.

As good as Mahomes is he can't do it alone.  He is blessed with a plethora of speedy receivers and a beast at TE.  Brady looks very different with only one dependable WR and no Gronk.

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11 hours ago, Bolts223 said:

I think it's debatable. People have forgotten just how insane prime Steve Young and Prime Rodgers were.

My point is that even with a Lebron/Jordan-esque talent at QB it's not as impactful as in the NBA. 

When Rodgers was in his prime he had Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson and James Jones.  He doesn't have these kind of WRs today.

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11 hours ago, wwhickok said:

Mahomes is who he is. I think he has the ability to elevate any offensive talent to at least some degree. The bigger question is what would the defenses be like?

The thing about this question is, tbh, imo he isnt playing in the SB right now on those teams, he fits perfectly with the coaching staff and roster of the chiefs and that's more about the guys that he has at his disposal than it is about him. He isnt less good on another team those teams just arent as good.

A lot of folks thought Rodgers was going to win multiple rings after the 2010 season so we can't assume Mahomes will going forward.  He has yet to be paid.  Once that happens it will be a hell of lot more challenging for KC to surround him with the team he has today.  For his sake I hope his GM does a better job than Ted Thompson did since 2012.  We have 2 years - 2012 + 2015 - where today not one player taken is still on the team and another year where only one is still around  It is tough to stay competitive with that track record when you aren't active in FA.  :(

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1 hour ago, Pugger said:

As good as Mahomes is he can't do it alone.  He is blessed with a plethora of speedy receivers and a beast at TE.  Brady looks very different with only one dependable WR and no Gronk.

Well Brady is also 40 plus, and never the talent Mahomes is. Brady was playing solid ball in his twenties with essentially a bunch of replaceable yahoos.

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Mahomes would have been great anywhere. He's a true franchise QB. Would have tuned any team into a winner.

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I think Watson would have an MVP and a Super Bowl ring with KC

Houston with Trubisky top 5 draft pick

Trubisky with KC, probably 9 or 10 wins

Mahomes in Houston I think would be pretty similar to the success Watson has had there

The super interesting one to me is Mahomes or Watson in Chicago. The Bears are a really talented team and I like their coaching staff. I think that’s a Super Bowl winner there.

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