2020 Free Agency Thread

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

And this is where you have to question the coaches decision to head that route. Counting on Charles, Lucas, and Christian isn't too smart. Regardless of how much work they put in on Charles and the fact Lucas started some games last year. 

 

Unless you have a crystal ball, we don’t know if it’s the right move or not and we actually don’t know if they aren’t going to sign a vet LT later this month or in June. 
 

I don’t think they will sign a vet like Beachum or Penn, and I don’t want them to bc I want the young guys to play so we see what we have for the future. Others like E, MikeT14 and others think they will.
 

I’m with Lavar though, I just want to see the young guys play at this point, no matter the position. I mean to be honest, I’m a big fan of guys like Peterson, Thomas Davis and Bostic but if I had it my way we would have went with all young guys.
 

For example, instead of signing Thomas Davis I would have just rolled with our young guys LBs like Ryan Anderson at SLB, Holcomb at MLB and SDH or JHC at WLB, with Reuben Foster being the wild card and the guy they drafted Hudson along with younger FAs we would sign for competition.

Edited May 4, 2020 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

19 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Unless you have a crystal ball, we don’t know if it’s the right move or not and we actually don’t know if they aren’t going to sign a vet LT later this month or in June. 
 

I don’t think they will, other like E, MikeT14 and others think they will. I’m with Lavar though, I just want to see the young guys play at this point, no matter the position. I mean to be honest, I’m a big fan of guys like Peterson, Thomas Davis and Bostic  but if I had it my way we would have went with all young guys. Instead of signing Thomas Davis I would have just rolled with our young guys LBs like Holcomb, SDH, JHC and guys they drafted like Hudson.

While it's good to want young guys getting time to play, certain positions need more Certainty than other's in my opinion. Your accepting the way they have delt with the Oline situation, I'm not and won't be until I know for sure Charles, Lucas, or Christian can produced like a Trent William's. 

Now had they delt Williams and SIGNED a Conklin, Peterson, ect I may be at peace with that whole at LT without Williams. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Skins212689

[turtle28]

5 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

While it's good to want young guys getting time to play, certain positions need more Certainty than other's in my opinion. Your accepting the way the have delt with the Oline situation, I'm not and won't be until I know for sure Charles, Lucas, or Christian can produced like a Trent William's. 

Now had they delt Williams and SIGNED a Conklin, Peterson, ect I may be at peace with that whole at LT without Williams. 

Yeah, but how do you know if Lucas, Charles or Christian can start at LT?

The only possible way is to play them right?
 

So, whenever that was going to happen this year or another time, that’s the only way to find out. The sooner we get that answer to that question the better for this franchise in the long term. If we figure out they aren’t the answer then, we know next draft we need to take a LT like Sewell or someone else early. 

[Skins212689]

17 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Yeah, but how do you know if Lucas, Charles or Christian can start at LT?

The only possible way is to play them right?
 

So, whenever that was going to happen this year or another time, that’s the only way to find out. The sooner we get that answer to that question the better for this franchise in the long term. If we figure out they aren’t the answer then, we know next draft we need to take a LT like Sewell or someone else early. 

No you/other's are gonna blame Haskins and be calling for Lawrence if we are in position to get him. 

I don't agree with letting go of Williams before having a legit replacement for him. The LT spot is too important to the Success of the Team/Haskins for me to be comfortable at this point. That won't change for me until Charles, Christian, Lucus, or someone else hits the field and fills that whole. 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Skins212689

[naptownskinsfan]

A great left tackle is a great thing to have, but I think we are overrating that position to an extent.  It's not something that you HAVE to have.  As I've said a couple different times, there are many things you can do.  You can chip with the tight end, you can set the running back on that side of the line to block.  You can shift the pocket.  The Redskins have a strong right side of the line, so they can afford to help out on the left side.  

Scott Turner runs a lot of pre-snap motion, and that is another way to help keep defenses off-balance and prevent them from bringing pressure.  They run a lot of short, quick passing routes, and ran a lot of first-down play-action.  All of those things help to protect the QB from taking sacks.  

We were never going to fix all of the holes in one off-season, especially one with a new head coach and the roster devoid of top-end talent, as well as switching back to zone-blocking.  Plugging and playing a veteran to start a couple games is just delaying the inevitable, and that is that we need to figure out what we currently have on the roster before moving forward.  

Also, our offensive line coach can make great players out of anyone- top draft picks, mid round picks and even UDFA.  You don't have to invest at the top end of the draft for one, but if you develop a good one no matter their spot in the draft, you will top dollar to keep them eventually.  Ideally, when we are ready to compete, it would be an ideal thing to have one, but there are also 31 other teams vying for the talent in the league.  Every team can't have it all.  If I've been the biggest critic of Ron Rivera, but absolutely love Matsko, I think we can all get on board with it. 

[e16bball]

I think the issue is that it’s much more important to find out whether our 1st round pick QB can play than to find out whether a bunch of question mark OTs can play. 

Other teams who have had promising young QBs have invested around them and given them the tools to succeed. Especially in terms of their blind side protector. The Rams went out and got Whitworth for Goff, the Giants just got Thomas for Jones, the Texans got Tunsil for Watson, the Eagles had Peters for Wentz, the Cowboys have had Tyron Smith for Prescott, the Ravens have had Stanley for Lamar, the Browns just got Wills for Mayfield, the Jets just got Becton for Darnold, hell the 49ers went out and got Trent for Garoppolo the same day Staley retired.

And we’re handing Haskins one of Cornelius Lucas, Saahdiq Charles, and Geron Christian. Which one of these is not like the others??

[naptownskinsfan]

5 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I think the issue is that it’s much more important to find out whether our 1st round pick QB can play than to find out whether a bunch of question mark OTs can play. 

Other teams who have had promising young QBs have invested around them and given them the tools to succeed. Especially in terms of their blind side protector. The Rams went out and got Whitworth for Goff, the Giants just got Thomas for Jones, the Texans got Tunsil for Watson, the Eagles had Peters for Wentz, the Cowboys have had Tyron Smith for Prescott, the Ravens have had Stanley for Lamar, the Browns just got Wills for Mayfield, the Jets just got Becton for Darnold, hell the 49ers went out and got Trent for Garoppolo the same day Staley retired.

And we’re handing Haskins one of Cornelius Lucas, Saahdiq Charles, and Geron Christian. Which one of these is not like the others??

All of those teams- sans the Giants- were/are much more close to competing when they added either the LT or the QB.  I wasn't going to pass up on Chase Young either.  Our options were to trade down and acquire more picks, pass on Young and address OT in the draft (where there were alot of questions on who would stick at LT or not.  Or we could overpay for an average tackle in free agency who might get cut in a couple years.  Or we can take a patient approach and build through the draft and spend a first round pick on that player in due time.  

They might also view Charles as a Week 1 starter with how they valued him outside of the off-field stuff.  For a team that is going to be pretty bad and likely picking in the top five again, arguing over signing a stop-gap veteran is splitting hairs at this point.  

[naptownskinsfan]

Not trying to discount needing to possibly spend a first round pick on a left tackle.  Of the top 10 LT's per PFF grades last year, only three were non-first rounders.  Terron Armstead was a third rounder, and David Bahktiari was a fourth rounder, and Alejandro Villanueva came out of Army as an UDFA.  

So it is possible to get a starting LT beyond the first round, but chances are we need to eventually spend a first rounder on the position.  And you can't fix all of your holes in one off-season.  I'm fine waiting until the right player comes along with the state of the roster right now.  

[Skins212689]

13 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

All of those teams- sans the Giants- were/are much more close to competing when they added either the LT or the QB.  I wasn't going to pass up on Chase Young either.  Our options were to trade down and acquire more picks, pass on Young and address OT in the draft (where there were alot of questions on who would stick at LT or not.  Or we could overpay for an average tackle in free agency who might get cut in a couple years.  Or we can take a patient approach and build through the draft and spend a first round pick on that player in due time.  

They might also view Charles as a Week 1 starter with how they valued him outside of the off-field stuff.  For a team that is going to be pretty bad and likely picking in the top five again, arguing over signing a stop-gap veteran is splitting hairs at this point.  

This thing with patience is for who Players, Coaches, or Fans? You can't be drafting in the top 5 next year not knowing what Haskins is or blaming him with the Oline performing the way it did last year. They put themselves in this position with their actions mishandling this Trent Williams situation. The OLINE IS IMPORTANT TO THE SUCCESS OF THE QB. 

[naptownskinsfan]

2 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

This thing with patience is for who Players, Coaches, or Fans? You can't be drafting in the top 5 next year not knowing what Haskins is or blaming him with the Oline performing the way it did last year. They put themselves in this position with their actions mishandling this Trent Williams situation. The OLINE IS IMPORTANT TO THE SUCCESS OF THE QB. 

The patience needs to be for everyone.  This isn't going to be a retool.  It's a rebuild.  There isn't much talent on this roster.  Most of it is still in the developing stages.  We will likely have a top 5 pick next year, and a 5-10 pick the year after that.  

The offensive line is important to the success of the QB, but there are five positions along the offensive line.  They all play a part in protecting the QB, as well as TE's and RB's and the QB's own pocket awareness.  I've also pointed out various ways that you can scheme to help out certain positions at certain times.  

[Skins212689]

Just now, naptownskinsfan said:

The patience needs to be for everyone.  This isn't going to be a retool.  It's a rebuild.  There isn't much talent on this roster.  Most of it is still in the developing stages.  We will likely have a top 5 pick next year, and a 5-10 pick the year after that.  

The offensive line is important to the success of the QB, but there are five positions along the offensive line.  They all play a part in protecting the QB, as well as TE's and RB's and the QB's own pocket awareness.  I've also pointed out various ways that you can scheme to help out certain positions at certain times.  

We don't have any choice but to wait and see what actually happens, yet We can discuss what We would've done differently and why. Hopefully as you said EVERYONE is Patient. 

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

No you/other's are gonna blame Haskins and be calling for Lawrence if we are in position to get him. 

I don't agree with letting go of Williams before having a legit replacement for him. The LT spot is too important to the Success of the Team/Haskins for me to be comfortable at this point. That won't change for me until Charles, Christian, Lucus, or someone else hits the field and fills that whole. 

 

Is this going to be your go to argument for the rest of your life?
 

We’ve had this discussion multiple times and your accusations are straight-up crap. You'll see.

Edited May 4, 2020 by turtle28

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, e16bball said:

I think the issue is that it’s much more important to find out whether our 1st round pick QB can play than to find out whether a bunch of question mark OTs can play. 

Other teams who have had promising young QBs have invested around them and given them the tools to succeed. Especially in terms of their blind side protector. The Rams went out and got Whitworth for Goff, the Giants just got Thomas for Jones, the Texans got Tunsil for Watson, the Eagles had Peters for Wentz, the Cowboys have had Tyron Smith for Prescott, the Ravens have had Stanley for Lamar, the Browns just got Wills for Mayfield, the Jets just got Becton for Darnold, hell the 49ers went out and got Trent for Garoppolo the same day Staley retired.

And we’re handing Haskins one of Cornelius Lucas, Saahdiq Charles, and Geron Christian. Which one of these is not like the others??

Well, we could have given Trent Williams $20-25 million a year on a 3 year extension, salary cap room we have by the way despite paying $20 million for a QB who will never play for us again.
 

I forget... What was your opinion on that?
 

Oh yeah, you wanted Trent off the team. You can’t have it both ways.

[e16bball]

2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Well, we could have given Trent Williams $20-25 million a year on a 3 year extension, salary cap room we have by the way despite paying $20 million for a QB who will never play for us again.
 

I forget... What was your opinion on that?
 

Oh yeah, you wanted Trent off the team. You can’t have it both ways.

Of course you can have it both ways. What are you talking about??

Get Trent the hell off the team (which, incidentally, I didn’t actually want until he rejected Rivera) and sign Jason Peters. Boom. I had it both ways. And I saved the team a few million and we didn’t saddle our young QB with what looks to be easily the worst left side of the line in the NFL heading into the season. Having it both ways was cool.

[e16bball]

4 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

All of those teams- sans the Giants- were/are much more close to competing when they added either the LT or the QB.  I wasn't going to pass up on Chase Young either.  Our options were to trade down and acquire more picks, pass on Young and address OT in the draft (where there were alot of questions on who would stick at LT or not.  Or we could overpay for an average tackle in free agency who might get cut in a couple years.  Or we can take a patient approach and build through the draft and spend a first round pick on that player in due time.  

Does the “overpay for an average tackle” option include signing Jason Peters or Kelvin Beachum to a one-year contract? If so, sign me up for that one. Don’t know why it has to be some big commitment, or why we would even care if they’re off the roster in a couple seasons — it’s a stopgap measure to make sure our QB stays upright and has a real chance to make progress without hearing footsteps and feeling like guys are breathing down his neck every play. 

And I don’t really understand why you’re treating that option and “take a patient approach and build through the draft” as mutually exclusive. Seems like a bit of a strawman to me, because they have basically no bearing on one another. No one thinks we’re being “impatient” and trying to “rush the process” by having Thomas Davis around on a one-year deal to be a good character guy and a solid veteran bridge to the future SLB we’ll acquire in the next year or two. How would it be any different to do the exact same thing with Jason Peters?

Signing a Peters or a Beachum doesn’t stop us from drafting a Penei Sewell or letting a Charles/Christian play their way into the role, any more than Thomas Davis is preventing us from drafting a Micah Parsons or letting a KPL/Holcomb play their way into his role. All it does is give us some insurance at a premium position, the one most responsible for giving Haskins the time he needs to work through his progressions and grow as a QB. And all it would cost is a portion of the tremendous amount of cap space we’ve hoarded. It’s legitimately mindboggling to me that anyone would be against this.