Archimedes Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 32 minutes ago, dwaye50327 said: He needs to play with a depleted team like Wilson did this year. Wilson literally put the team on his back in the playoffs and almost pulled out a win in Lambeau. I'm not saying Maholmes couldn't do that, but he hasn't had to yet so we don't know if he could. Mahomes has fallen into a great situation. Hell, Matt Moore looked good when he came in for Mahomes and went 2-1. If it wasn't for Wilson, the seahawks wouldn't have made the playoffs and probably would have finished under .500. Ridiculous. I don't care how much better people think Mahomes supporting cast is than Wilson's. There's a zero percent chance Maomes wouldn't have been able to lead the Seahawks to the playoffs if you swapped them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwaye50327 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Archimedes said: Ridiculous. I don't care how much better people think Mahomes supporting cast is than Wilson's. There's a zero percent chance Maomes wouldn't have been able to lead the Seahawks to the playoffs if you swapped them out. Why is that ridiculous? I never once said Mahomes wouldn’t lead the Seahawks to the playoffs. My point was Wilson had to do more with less and he still performed well. Mahomes has never had to lead a depleted team before. He’s fallen into a great situation in KC, you can’t blame him at all for that, he’s made the most of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, dwaye50327 said: Why is that ridiculous? I never once said Mahomes wouldn’t lead the Seahawks to the playoffs. My point was Wilson had to do more with less and he still performed well. Mahomes has never had to lead a depleted team before. He’s fallen into a great situation in KC, you can’t blame him at all for that, he’s made the most of it. Ridiculous was perhaps too strong a word. I will absolutely concede that Mahomes has fallen into a great situation, and he’s currently in a better situation than Wilson. I also agree that RW would thrive on the Chiefs. I just don’t doubt that Mahomes would have gotten the Seahawks to the playoffs too. If you agree then cool, it’s all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 The Seahawks weren’t depleted this year. At least not for most of it. They boasted a strong run game and a solid line. Lockett, Metcalf, Gordon, Moore, and Hollister were decent weapons. This isn’t the Seahawks team that couldn’t run and couldn’t block, like we’ve seen Wilson lead before. And no, they weren’t the Chiefs either. Clearly below, but they weren’t garbage. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: The Seahawks weren’t depleted this year. At least not for most of it. They boasted a strong run game and a solid line. Lockett, Metcalf, Gordon, Moore, and Hollister were decent weapons. This isn’t the Seahawks team that couldn’t run and couldn’t block, like we’ve seen Wilson lead before. And no, they weren’t the Chiefs either. Clearly below, but they weren’t garbage. Agreed. They simply collapsed with injuries the final 3 weeks of the season or so. And their defense was lackluster, but it wasn't so terrible that they couldn't keep games close enough for Wilson to give the team a chance. Still ranked 18th overall in DVOA by season's end. Essentially average. Edited February 12, 2020 by PapaShogun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 On 07/02/2020 at 5:36 AM, Bearerofnews said: As for the question, its Wilson. He makes throws Mahomes cant/or hasnt. With Wilson it's tight window throw after tight window throw after tight window throw. Well this is wrong. On 07/02/2020 at 5:36 AM, Bearerofnews said: Tight window throws are the equivalent of 3 pointers on a defender vs open shots from the perimeter. You do know that if you are forced to throw balls into tighter windows more often then that’s an indictment against you not a positive reflection on your abilities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 As for question, it Mahomes quite easily for me. It’s not an indictment against RW but more so how great Mahomes is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 The obvious answer is Mahomes, but at the same time this is closer than people think - if that makes sense. They’re 1A and 1B right now. Can’t go wrong with either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 9 hours ago, Kip Smithers said: Well this is wrong. You do know that if you are forced to throw balls into tighter windows more often then that’s an indictment against you not a positive reflection on your abilities Not true.... at all. Go look at qbs who had the least amount of tight window throws and tell me they have "elite vision". All about scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piquel Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Of all the big arm QBs in history, Mahomes has the fastest release. It's near Manning speed. Add that to how fast the ball travels in the air and Defenses are extremely vulnerable to any misstep. The time from decision to receiver getting the ball is something NFL isn't use to. Zone defenders coverage radius is is next to nothing, and Chiefs have multiple players that can beat man. Off platform doesn't affect Mahomes power near the level it does other QBs. He can throw a 20 yard frozen rope with just a flick of his wrist. Russell Wilson is also great at these things and I think it is what separates them from the rest of the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 On 12/02/2020 at 7:52 PM, Bearerofnews said: Not true.... at all. Go look at qbs who had the least amount of tight window throws and tell me they have "elite vision". All about scheme. I did and in fact the guys who according to next gen stats who typically had the higher aggressiveness% are young guys and less experienced ones. Typically when the game moves fast for you the windows are tighter. Dwayne Haskins has highest %. Brady one of best QBs ever, hardly ever throws into tight windows. Drew Brees to a lesser extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Kip Smithers said: I did and in fact the guys who according to next gen stats who typically had the higher aggressiveness% are young guys and less experienced ones. Typically when the game moves fast for you the windows are tighter. Dwayne Haskins has highest %. Brady one of best QBs ever, hardly ever throws into tight windows. Drew Brees to a lesser extent. Did you see who the 4 or 5 qbs are with the lowest agg%. They are Devlin, Flacco, Carr and Mahomes. I dont think any of them are great reading defenses. In Mahomes case, watch all 22. Youll be shocked how many wide open options he has on a majority of his throws. You wont find another qb ever who has that many wide open targets on that many downs. Hey more power to him, he is taking advantage of what the scheme is creating and maximizing it. But lets not act like every qb in the league; starters to 3rd string cant make throws to wide open targets. What seperates qbs, the truly elite are ones who can and have to make tight window throws.. because not every qb can make those consistently. No one will ever change my mind of that. If Mahomes was producing like he was, while making actual difficult throws... rival or not, id be slurping him up like everyone else. Edited February 14, 2020 by Bearerofnews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGold Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 31 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said: What seperates qbs, the truly elite are ones who can and have to make tight window throws.. because not every qb can make those consistently. No one will ever change my mind of that. If Mahomes was producing like he was, while making actual difficult throws... rival or not, id be slurping him up like everyone else. Just a question.. do you think it’s also possible these guys are getting so open because defense realize they have to cover so much ground compared to most QB’s... cuz I can almost guarantee these guys were not getting near the same amount of separation with Smith at QB. I’ll agree a lot of it is scheme,, But you can’t deny defenses have to account for the speed and Mahomes ability to extend plays... when you have to account for players 20-40 yards downfield, That opens up a ton of room so you’re not having to throw into tight windows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 On 2/7/2020 at 3:15 AM, JustAnotherFan said: He has been pretty underrated over his career while playing with the likes of Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Ryan, Ben, and Rivers. And it's strange that he suddenly get the recognition he deserves during a year when all of them have down years. People started calling him a top tier QB over a year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, samsel23 said: Just a question.. do you think it’s also possible these guys are getting so open because defense realize they have to cover so much ground compared to most QB’s... cuz I can almost guarantee these guys were not getting near the same amount of separation with Smith at QB. I’ll agree a lot of it is scheme,, But you can’t deny defenses have to account for the speed and Mahomes ability to extend plays... when you have to account for players 20-40 yards downfield, That opens up a ton of room so you’re not having to throw into tight windows That's true. But it would be supported with the TT metric. Time to time, which is around the league avg for Mahomes. Wilson's agg is 18.6 to Mahomes 12.2 Wilson's intended air yards is 9.4 yd avg. Mahomes is 8.6. Wilson's TT is 2.85 to Mahomes 2.82 Edited February 14, 2020 by Bearerofnews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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