New Corner

[Pandomonium]

so let me ask you guys this

are you willing to spend your 31st pick overall on a guard?
or a safety? (delpit will be gone by then)
or a WR 

also ward has come out and said he wants to come back and if he doesn't, to me moore is an upgrade because of his better ball skills
Jalen Hurd has not played yet, Sanders may not leave either and trent taylor when healthy is "mr 3rd down conversion" 
brunskill or skule can slide inside and play guard better than person not to mention ben garland can play guard once richberg comes back from injury 

many of the issues you are talking about can be handled in-house 

you can't say that about corner because after sherm and sometimes mosely ....who can we really rely on?

so again i ask
what position is is worth the 31st overall pick without reaching?

 

[Forge]

16 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

Secondly I NEVER said that this was the only place we need improvement in. 
so to assume that I don't think we need IOL or Safety or WR (which is a whole 'nother discussion) 
is just baiting an argument by putting words in my mouth

I didn't say you said this at all. I was asking why it was wrong to think that we would believe that ourselves (or the team) would feel that these are bigger needs and therefore would address them before corner. 

[757-NINER]

2 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

so let me ask you guys this

are you willing to spend your 31st pick overall on a guard?
or a safety? (delpit will be gone by then)
or a WR 

also ward has come out and said he wants to come back and if he doesn't, to me moore is an upgrade because of his better ball skills
Jalen Hurd has not played yet, Sanders may not leave either and trent taylor when healthy is "mr 3rd down conversion" 
brunskill or skule can slide inside and play guard better than person not to mention ben garland can play guard once richberg comes back from injury 

many of the issues you are talking about can be handled in-house 

you can't say that about corner because after sherm and sometimes mosely ....who can we really rely on?

so again i ask
what position is is worth the 31st overall pick without reaching?

 

I'm willing to trade out of the pick and acquire more picks. That would be priority #1 for me.

Its too early for me in the process to contemplate excatly where we should go if we stay@31 but if you put a gun to my head, it more than likely a decent talent@FS falls to the end of the round or I wouldn't be opposed to double-dipping@DE in back-to-back drafts if one happen to take a fall as well...

How excatly is Moore a upgrade over Ward? Better ball skills is debatable but Moore is a horrible tackler. Like just bad. And he's takes some very questionable angles to the ball. Ward has been one of the better tackling FS in the league this year so it remains to be seen how a swap of Moore over Ward would translate on the field. Moore's speed is mesmerizing but its more to the position than being able to cover grass.

As for CB, I fully expect us to sign a vet CB to help us out depth wise. But Sherm, Williams, Moseley, and Spoon is a helluva of a starting point. We'll acquire more bodies through the usual channels and let the chips fall where they may...

[Forge]

40 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

so let me ask you guys this

are you willing to spend your 31st pick overall on a guard?

This depends on whether or not they feel that Cushenberry and Ruiz can play guard at the next level as opposed to just center. They both have limited samples at the position in their college career, but I can't speak to where they stand on that. If they do, then both of those guys absolutely can make sense at 31 and I would have no problem with either selection. As for true guards, I don't love it, to be honest. They would have to feel comfortable with those guys. That being said, if the intent is to move down from 31 to procure additional picks to make up for the ones we lost, then this becomes a more active discussion as there probably are some guards I would be okay with taking at 45-50 that I wouldn't be okay with taking at 31. 

That being said, I don't think that Shanny values guards that much, so I would be a little surprised if that is the first selection. Guard more or less strikes me as a position that we would draft in the fifth. 

40 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

or a safety? (delpit will be gone by then)

Well, there's certainly no guarantee that Delpit is gone by then (Kyle Crabbs actually has us taking him at 31), and making that claim before even the combine happens seems a little preemptive. Also  he's not the only one, as McKinney is also well worth that selection. I would not have a problem with either if they were there. 

40 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

or a WR 

Absolutely. This WR class is stacked. Tee Higgins at 31? Ruggs? I'm down. 

40 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

also ward has come out and said he wants to come back and if he doesn't, to me moore is an upgrade because of his better ball skills

Maybe he has better ball skills. I'd lean yes on that, but eh. But he's also a horrific tackler taking over for one of the better tacklers at the position and takes god awful angles. Maybe he has better ball skills, but he could also potentially be worse in coverage (coming down hill, breaking up passes with physicality), is certainly worse in tackling, and I think that there's a chance that communication / mental errors are worse off. That last one is simply a guess, and you may suffer that with anyone who's not named Ward in fairness. 

40 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

Jalen Hurd has not played yet, Sanders may not leave either and trent taylor when healthy is "mr 3rd down conversion" 

Jalen Hurd hasn't played, correct. He's a raw wide receiver who missed his entire rookie season. I'm not banking on him coming in and immediately lighting the league up. I hope he does though.  Manny may not leave, or he may leave. Don't know yet. That's something that can't be answered. If he comes back, I've already stated that I wouldn't take a wide receiver in the first in the draft thread. But if he goes, it's a legitimate option. 

Trent Taylor is a niche role player who can't stay healthy and has absolutely no bearing on the wide receiver situation opposite Deebo. 

Until Manny resigns, or we grab someone else, receiver has to be in play here. 

40 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

brunskill or skule can slide inside and play guard better than person not to mention ben garland can play guard once richberg comes back from injury 

Justin Skule, who probably wouldn't have made the team without Coleman getting hurt,  is going to solve the interior offensive line problem? Just like that, huh? With no experience at the position even in college? But we feel good about that just being able to happen? 

Brunskill is not an ideal guard for me, but yeah, he can play it. Better than Person? Honestly, I don't know. I think that they would suffer similar faults to be honest. I like Brunskill as a tackle moving forward as I was really impressed with what I saw there, and I also kind of like the idea of him as a center, but we don't really have anything to go on there. I like him least as a guard, but but there's potential for that to be an improvement. A lot will be decided on how the team decides to groom him moving forward, which I'll be honest, I don't know the answer to. 

We want to start Ben Garland? Okay, that's definitely not an improvement on Person. 

Outside of potentially Brunskill (and that's a moving target right now), these others are absolutely not solutions. 

40 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

many of the issues you are talking about can be handled in-house 

Not if the handling of it is moving Skule to the interior on a hope and a prayer. 

40 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

you can't say that about corner because after sherm and sometimes mosely ....who can we really rely on?

There is no indication that we can just rely on any of the guys you were talking about, tbh. LIS, I'm a big Brunskill fan, so we will see how that goes moving forward. I don't know what the team wants to do with him at this juncture. My guess is that he's the jack of all trades 6th lineman. I don't think he starts, but really early for that, and if he outplays someone in preseason and TC, he'll start. 

40 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

what position is is worth the 31st overall pick without reaching?

None of those guys I named would be a reach at all right now....I think you meant something else here. if all of those guys are gone...well that just means other guys have fallen, and that becomes an interesting conversation of BPA tbh. And you didn't even talk about Defensive Line, which is a position I am super bullish on taking here depending on how the free agency extravaganza plays out 

[Forge]

24 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

How excatly is Moore a upgrade over Ward? Better ball skills is debatable but Moore is a horrible tackler. Like just bad. And he's takes some very questionable angles to the ball. Ward has been one of the better tackling FS in the league this year so it remains to be seen how a swap of Moore over Ward would translate on the field. Moore's speed is mesmerizing but its more to the position than being able to cover grass.

 

Hehe, twinsies 

[Forge]

FWIW, pando, 

I don't blame you for not being comfortable with the CB position. I'm not going to fault you for that. I'm not going to say you're wrong about your desire to want to go in this direction either, as there will be some damn good players available at the position at 31. 

I don't agree that it's my top priority right now, though it's early in the off season and things change. I need to see how that plays out. Secondarily, right now, I just don't think that the FO is going to agree with you and view it that way. It's always tricky when trying to guess what someone else is thinking (or in this case, an entire front office), and I could totally be 100% wrong, but I'll toot my own horn and say that my radar was pretty damn good during last offseason with regards to this lol. 

[N4L]

2 hours ago, Pandomonium said:

he is irritating as hell
he will be in perfect position many times to make an INT or PBU but REFUSES....I mean ABSOLUTELY REFUSES  to look for the ball
Other times he gets hit in the chest with the ball and drops it.

That's something he can work on in the off-season. The player he is today is not the finished product. 

Tackling, tracking the ball in the air are things you can improve upon 

[Geek]

I mean how many position 's do we have were the rookie would step in and be an immediate starter? Seems like we have established starters across the board. I feel like our picks are going to be mostly situational contributors and and future starters.

 

With that in mind I like corner as a pick. At some point Sherman is going to have to be replaced and it would be nice for him to be able to pass some of his knowledge to his heir, especially since corner is not an easy position to transition to in the NFL. In particular I really like Trevon Diggs if we do go the corner route. We could also go WR since we'd probably get such good value considering how deep this class is. We might be able to snag a great prospect like Higgins or Shenault(if you're not afraid of those injuries). IOL makes a lot of sense too since it's actually a position of need and we could probably snag a top prospect like Ruiz or Cushenberry and a 4th in a trade back. A lot of ways we could attack this draft this for the first time in forever this roster isn't full of holes.

 

 

[757-NINER]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

This depends on whether or not they feel that Cushenberry and Ruiz can play guard at the next level as opposed to just center. They both have limited samples at the position in their college career, but I can't speak to where they stand on that. If they do, then both of those guys absolutely can make sense at 31 and I would have no problem with either selection. As for true guards, I don't love it, to be honest. They would have to feel comfortable with those guys. That being said, if the intent is to move down from 31 to procure additional picks to make up for the ones we lost, then this becomes a more active discussion as there probably are some guards I would be okay with taking at 45-50 that I wouldn't be okay with taking at 31. 

That being said, I don't think that Shanny values guards that much, so I would be a little surprised if that is the first selection. Guard more or less strikes me as a position that we would draft in the fifth. 

Well, there's certainly no guarantee that Delpit is gone by then (Kyle Crabbs actually has us taking him at 31), and making that claim before even the combine happens seems a little preemptive. Also  he's not the only one, as McKinney is also well worth that selection. I would not have a problem with either if they were there. 

Absolutely. This WR class is stacked. Tee Higgins at 31? Ruggs? I'm down. 

Maybe he has better ball skills. I'd lean yes on that, but eh. But he's also a horrific tackler taking over for one of the better tacklers at the position and takes god awful angles. Maybe he has better ball skills, but he could also potentially be worse in coverage (coming down hill, breaking up passes with physicality), is certainly worse in tackling, and I think that there's a chance that communication / mental errors are worse off. That last one is simply a guess, and you may suffer that with anyone who's not named Ward in fairness. 

Jalen Hurd hasn't played, correct. He's a raw wide receiver who missed his entire rookie season. I'm not banking on him coming in and immediately lighting the league up. I hope he does though.  Manny may not leave, or he may leave. Don't know yet. That's something that can't be answered. If he comes back, I've already stated that I wouldn't take a wide receiver in the first in the draft thread. But if he goes, it's a legitimate option. 

Trent Taylor is a niche role player who can't stay healthy and has absolutely no bearing on the wide receiver situation opposite Deebo. 

Until Manny resigns, or we grab someone else, receiver has to be in play here. 

Justin Skule, who probably wouldn't have made the team without Coleman getting hurt,  is going to solve the interior offensive line problem? Just like that, huh? With no experience at the position even in college? But we feel good about that just being able to happen? 

Brunskill is not an ideal guard for me, but yeah, he can play it. Better than Person? Honestly, I don't know. I think that they would suffer similar faults to be honest. I like Brunskill as a tackle moving forward as I was really impressed with what I saw there, and I also kind of like the idea of him as a center, but we don't really have anything to go on there. I like him least as a guard, but but there's potential for that to be an improvement. A lot will be decided on how the team decides to groom him moving forward, which I'll be honest, I don't know the answer to. 

We want to start Ben Garland? Okay, that's definitely not an improvement on Person. 

Outside of potentially Brunskill (and that's a moving target right now), these others are absolutely not solutions. 

Not if the handling of it is moving Skule to the interior on a hope and a prayer. 

There is no indication that we can just rely on any of the guys you were talking about, tbh. LIS, I'm a big Brunskill fan, so we will see how that goes moving forward. I don't know what the team wants to do with him at this juncture. My guess is that he's the jack of all trades 6th lineman. I don't think he starts, but really early for that, and if he outplays someone in preseason and TC, he'll start. 

None of those guys I named would be a reach at all right now....I think you meant something else here. if all of those guys are gone...well that just means other guys have fallen, and that becomes an interesting conversation of BPA tbh. And you didn't even talk about Defensive Line, which is a position I am super bullish on taking here depending on how the free agency extravaganza plays out 

I think ppl are a very giddy about how Skule and Brunskill looked when given the opportunity. But they are still one big ? going forward. 

Brunskill should be slotted as the leader for swing tackle right now imho. Projecting him as the starter anywhere on the O-Line is a bit premature as it stands right now. Alot will depend on if Staley comes back. I haven't heard any rumblings that he won't. He had a tough year physically last season and maybe the grind of another season and the stress of getting hurt, rehabbing and then getting back in shape to get on the field might not be what he's up for again. But the sting of another SB loss might also be the driving force behind him coming back with a vengeance.

I may be in the minority here, but I dont like the idea of either Brunskill or Skule playing inside. We're going to eventually run into the same problems we had with Person, a converted tackle. I understand most thought Brunskill looked good when he started in place of Person. But us continuing to plug in converted OTs to man the interior will always leave us susceptible to good interior defenders. Point blank, we need guys bigger, stronger and athletic enough to block on the move. We need a infusion of talent, not more conversions. Need to stop shopping in the bargain bin and actually invest in the interior. If the FO and Shanny expect Jimmy to make strides, giving him a better pocket to step up into and make throws seems to be one of the easiest ways to help aid that process. 

I like Brunskill more on the outside, on a island, than in-line. He seems to be more natural there, imo. Skule to me is a guy still developing. I think Brunskill is easily the better looking tackle. But Skule has enough potential that you have to keep him around and see how he develops....at OT.

[Pandomonium]

yes
transitioning from a college CB to an NFL CB is a very difficult thing

which is why I am advocating drafting a CB BEFORE we need one. Like GEEK said
I'd like to take a CB now and allow him to slowly acclimate to the NFL game while sherman is around to mentor him 

I'd much rather do that than wait until sherman goes to the house or leaves via FA THEN draft a CB, and throw him to the wolves praying he does ok 

 

that's my logic

[757-NINER]

17 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

yes
transitioning from a college CB to an NFL CB is a very difficult thing

which is why I am advocating drafting a CB BEFORE we need one. Like GEEK said
I'd like to take a CB now and allow him to slowly acclimate to the NFL game while sherman is around to mentor him 

I'd much rather do that than wait until sherman goes to the house or leaves via FA THEN draft a CB, and throw him to the wolves praying he does ok 

 

that's my logic

I just think its much more plausible for us to go the free agent vet route to add more playable depth to the CB room than allocating a pick there at this point in time. Seeing as our SB window is now opening and we do have capable candidates in-house, despite what some may feel about them as long-term solutions.

And as Forge alluded to, we dont how the FO feels about the guys we have in-house. We don't know if Tim Harris is the 2020 version of Moseley. We don't how PS guys like Taz Tabor fit into the puzzle, if at all. So while I understand wanting to draft and groom a heir apparent, it would appear that they may see other areas as more pressing in terms of rounding out the roster and potentially getting back to the Florida to play in February 2021.

Edited February 9, 2020 by 757-NINER

[Pandomonium]

10 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

I just think its much more plausible for us to go the free agent vet route to add more playable depth to the CB room than allocating a pick there at this point in time. Seeing as our SB window is now opening and we do have capable candidates in-house, despite what some may feel about them as long-term solutions.

And as Forge alluded to, we dont how the FO feels about the guys we have in-house. We don't know if Tim Harris is the 2020 version of Moseley. We don't how PS guys like Taz Tabor fit into the puzzle, if at all. So while I understand wanting to draft and groom a heir apparent, it would appear that they may see other areas as more pressing in terms of rounding out the roster and potentially getting back to the Florida to play in February 2021.

ok 
It was a really a discussion starting topic 
I agree its early
I'm stating my opinion 
and I stand behind it
not saying that what you guys think is wrong 

 

[oldman9er]

I'd prefer the trade back from 31 approach. 

I'm fine if they choose CB early. I leave room for both possibilities of Spoon getting better or staying untrustworthy. 

I agree that throwing a 1 yr vet CB or S onto the field (in 2021) is better than throwing a rookie onto the field. 

(so, there is value in getting one now )

I'm okay if they don't make CB a high priority. 

Not expecting OL early, unless Joe is hanging em up. Hope Garland wants to come back for a cheap year. Good depth, at the least. 

My gut is that Manny Sanders comes back, but if not, a good WR should be added. I don't trust Hurd or Taylor.

I'm not comfortable with our Edge depth, so that is something to watch, at this time. Might solve this pre-draft. 

We should be in good shape to return next season as legit contenders. 

[757-NINER]

38 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

I'd prefer the trade back from 31 approach. 

I'm fine if they choose CB early. I leave room for both possibilities of Spoon getting better or staying untrustworthy. 

I agree that throwing a 1 yr vet CB or S onto the field (in 2021) is better than throwing a rookie onto the field. 

(so, there is value in getting one now )

I'm okay if they don't make CB a high priority. 

Not expecting OL early, unless Joe is hanging em up. Hope Garland wants to come back for a cheap year. Good depth, at the least. 

My gut is that Manny Sanders comes back, but if not, a good WR should be added. I don't trust Hurd or Taylor.

I'm not comfortable with our Edge depth, so that is something to watch, at this time. Might solve this pre-draft. 

We should be in good shape to return next season as legit contenders. 

 

This has been my #1 priority for the off-season. Interior O-Line is right up there but seeing how inept our pass-rush was when Ford was out just cemented for me the importance in adding a third quality edge-rusher. I don't trust Ford to stay healthy. I think its a minor miracle Bosa stayed healthy for a entire 16 game season and playoff run. We need to find a third edge rusher. 

[oldman9er]

55 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

 

This has been my #1 priority for the off-season. Interior O-Line is right up there but seeing how inept our pass-rush was when Ford was out just cemented for me the importance in adding a third quality edge-rusher. I don't trust Ford to stay healthy. I think its a minor miracle Bosa stayed healthy for a entire 16 game season and playoff run. We need to find a third edge rusher. 

Yep. Completely agree with this. 

... and one thing for sure, Soloman Thomas contract needs to vanish. 8.9 mil cap hit? nope.. can't do it. I don't care if we have to eat roughly half of it. That is still 4.3 mil that can be used for AA or another position... and he's not good enough to help much on the edge.