showtime Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 minute ago, scar988 said: TDs are a function of the offense. Not of the player. When you're in an offense with Roddy White, Tony Gonzalez, Michael Turner, Tevin Coleman, Devonta Freeman, Austin Hooper and Mohamed Sanu eating the red zone TDs because you're drawing doubles all the time, what can you do? Yeah, but we're talking about a guy who is one of the most talented receivers of all-time. All of the players you mentioned are inferior to Jones by a pretty wide margin. Guys like Fitzgerald, Moss, Owens, Calvin Johnson, etc also dealt with those same issues and put up a ton of TDs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scar988 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, showtime said: Yeah, but we're talking about a guy who is one of the most talented receivers of all-time. All of the players you mentioned are inferior to Jones by a pretty wide margin. Guys like Fitzgerald, Moss, Owens, Calvin Johnson, etc also dealt with those same issues and put up a ton of TDs. A lot of those guys were force fed in the red zone though. The amount of times Julio has taken it down to the 5-10 yard line and the team scored the very next play is almost frustrating if you want to see him score TDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I'm not knocking Julio Jones. He's a great player; however, the lack of TD's is disturbing for a guy people will be putting in the category of one of the best ever based on his talent and other forms of production. I get that he brought them to the red zone countless times. All elite players can do that. The guy is 6'3" with great leaping ability and an insane catch radius. He's able to dominate all over the field - until he gets to the red zone then he doesn't look all-time great anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braylon Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 8 hours ago, Bullet Club said: He's a better player but give me Reggie Wayne's career. Roughly 50% longer career at this point. Very fair point. You even plainly stated "his 9 seasons".. my bad lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) Honestly might put Brandon Marshall over Julio Jones. The TD difference is wild. Despite have 2354 more yards and a vastly superior yards per reception, he still has 8 less touchdowns when you chart out to Marshall's first 9 years. Marshall only had 20 receptions in his 1st year too. Edited February 14, 2020 by Malik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrnastiesNO Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) Ignoring the number and just going off skill and dominance I have the following above and equal to him Rice Moss Brown Hopkins Owens C.Johnson His game tier Thomas Green Beckham Johnson** Evans Smith Marshall Fitzgerald (I want to put him above him but I don't want to say what if he had a QB.) D. Bryant D. Thomas (prime wasn't as long) Harrison Wayne Edited February 14, 2020 by MrnastiesNO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrnastiesNO Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Malik said: Honestly might put Brandon Marshall over Julio Jones. The TD difference is wild. Despite have 2354 more yards and a vastly superior yards per reception, he still has 8 less touchdowns when you chart out to Marshall's first 9 years. Marshall only had 20 receptions in his 1st year too. That just meant they scored other ways. But Jones contributed greatly getting into scoring position. I prefer to look yardage and catches to be honest. They usually don't lie expect for players like Landry, Elderman, Welker. Where would you put R. White before or after Marshal. Edited February 14, 2020 by MrnastiesNO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Behind Moss, Rice, TO, Chad Johnson, AB maybe, who else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 2 hours ago, mission27 said: Behind Moss, Rice, TO, Chad Johnson, AB maybe, who else? Um... do you mean Calvin Johnson? Or are you really putting Ocho Cinco in this talk? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 4 hours ago, MrnastiesNO said: That just meant they scored other ways. But Jones contributed greatly getting into scoring position. I prefer to look yardage and catches to be honest. They usually don't lie expect for players like Landry, Elderman, Welker. Where would you put R. White before or after Marshal. After Marshall. His peak was shorter and not as high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 1 hour ago, ET80 said: Um... do you mean Calvin Johnson? Or are you really putting Ocho Cinco in this talk? Both tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hukos Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, showtime said: I'm not knocking Julio Jones. He's a great player; however, the lack of TD's is disturbing for a guy people will be putting in the category of one of the best ever based on his talent and other forms of production. I get that he brought them to the red zone countless times. All elite players can do that. The guy is 6'3" with great leaping ability and an insane catch radius. He's able to dominate all over the field - until he gets to the red zone then he doesn't look all-time great anymore. I've never personally been concerned about Julio's lack of touchdowns. As long as someone scores, I don't really care who does it. People have noted before that the Falcons have always made an attempt to get Matt Ryan great weapons (and that's definitely true, whereas the teams were always lacking in other, perhaps more critical areas like offensive line, defense, etc.) - that having all those great skill position players means one dude just isn't gonna get 20 tds a year. If you've seriously put in good draft capital in getting your QB some weapons, and he just locks down on one WR, you've made a serious error. If the Falcons were in a position of a great offensive line, but Julio was the only weapon you'd probably see his TD totals go up significantly. As a general rule, the Falcons offense is also more productive when the ball is being spread, as opposed to Julio getting the bulk of the targets. We tried that in 2015, and Julio had great stats, but the offense went into a serious shell at points in the season. 2016 was an example of just how effective and deadly it can be when Matt was just distributing the ball to a bunch of different guys. We could try and make it so we only throw it to Julio in the redzone and beef up his touchdown total, but I think it's also completely unnecessary. Edited February 14, 2020 by Hukos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scar988 Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 20 hours ago, showtime said: I'm not knocking Julio Jones. He's a great player; however, the lack of TD's is disturbing for a guy people will be putting in the category of one of the best ever based on his talent and other forms of production. I get that he brought them to the red zone countless times. All elite players can do that. The guy is 6'3" with great leaping ability and an insane catch radius. He's able to dominate all over the field - until he gets to the red zone then he doesn't look all-time great anymore. I think you should go back and watch every Falcons red zone drive for the last 10 years and tell me what you see in regards to the coverage on Julio. After 2012, Julio started seeing straight doubles or bracket zones every single play. Outside of plays literally schemed for him to get open, he was getting double teamed and his QB was smart enough to know that if Julio is doubled, someone else is either singled or open. So Ryan being smart threw to the open man. It's not rocket surgery, man. 13 hours ago, Malik said: Honestly might put Brandon Marshall over Julio Jones. The TD difference is wild. Despite have 2354 more yards and a vastly superior yards per reception, he still has 8 less touchdowns when you chart out to Marshall's first 9 years. Marshall only had 20 receptions in his 1st year too. Now that's just dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scar988 Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Julio Jones ranks through 9 seasons as compared to other players in their first 9 seasons at WR: Receptions - 4th Yardage - 1st by like 300 yards. TD's - 46th. Which considering the 100 year history of the NFL, the fact that only 45 players scored more TDs than him in their first 9 years at WR says something. Yards per target - 1st. Oh yeah, and Julio missed 20 games due to injury and was banged up and still playing at around 60% for another 8-9 more of those and still is in this area. If he didn't miss those games, I wonder just how many more TDs he would have to shut up the guys on forums like this that can't see that TDs are a function of the team, scheme and offensive coordinator and not the individual player. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scar988 Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 BTW, I'd have Julio in the top 10, but that's about it if he were to retire today. He's had a great career, but something feels like it's missing from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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