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TL-TwoWinsAway

The Argument for a 2nd Round WR

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12 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

I think everyone knows I’m a huge believer in building a team inside, outside, front back.

That said if Lamb is available in the second I would be upset if the Lions didn’t draft him. That of course is dependant on what they do in round one. 

If a player with his talent is available in the second I don’t think you pass up the opportunity. The draft only provides so many gifts and if you’re offered one you gleefully rub your hands together and sprint to the podium.

 

I cant disagree with that.

I'm never for reaching for need anyways. I guess I just hope a player of caliber falls at different positions. I still worry about our front 7, oline and rbs.

If they could have a lucky Saints like draft from a few years ago, I could totally see us contending providing Stafford stays upright. 

..oh yeah, and if Patricia opens his mind. If, if if...huh. Sad reality for Lions fans.

Edited by detroitroar

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1 hour ago, Nastradamus said:

I will be pretty upset if we don't take a WR by 35

That doesn't leave a lot of room for error. Assuming we trade down, I still don't see us having multiple 1sts unless we REALLY trade back (or Miami gets super desperate). 

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2 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

That doesn't leave a lot of room for error. Assuming we trade down, I still don't see us having multiple 1sts unless we REALLY trade back (or Miami gets super desperate). 

I think it's either that trade-down late 1st or that early 2nd... there will be so much high-end talent on the board with those picks.

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On 2/16/2020 at 1:37 PM, Karnage84 said:

That doesn't leave a lot of room for error. Assuming we trade down, I still don't see us having multiple 1sts unless we REALLY trade back (or Miami gets super desperate). 

I feel very strongly about multiple things here. 

1. WR is a huge need both short and long term

2. This WR draft is one of the 2 best WR drafts since I've been watching drafts(95)

3. WR is value position #3

4. We will acquire 18, 26 or both from Miami in a trade down

The way things fall, its simply going to be real hard for me to not be at least mildly disappointed with no WR by 35. I'd rather have one at 3 than none at all tbh.

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7 minutes ago, Nastradamus said:

I feel very strongly about multiple things here. 

1. WR is a huge need both short and long term

2. This WR draft is one of the 2 best WR drafts since I've been watching drafts(95)

3. WR is value position #3

4. We will acquire 18, 26 or both from Miami in a trade down

The way things fall, its simply going to be real hard for me to not be at least mildly disappointed with no WR by 35. I'd rather have one at 3 than none at all tbh.

I dont understand how anyone can call wr a huge need on this team.....assuming were talking relative to other positions. 

Where would you put it exactly and why?

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Just now, detroitroar said:

I dont understand how anyone can call wr a huge need on this team.....assuming were talking relative to other positions. 

Where would you put it exactly and why?

I think WR is absolutely a need right now.

The success of this team is directly tied to Stafford's arm. Right now, we've got a 'good' starting unit of pass-catchers, assuming Amendola returns. That being said, Marvin Jones is close to 30 and entering the final year of his contract, and this offense is one Golladay or Jones injury away from declining significantly. It just so happens that this draft class is incredibly deep at the WR position.

We can make other moves at other areas on the field, to include re-signing Glasgow and hunting a high profile free agent or two. That being said, we're in position to land a great WR in the first two rounds of this draft, a move that improves this team both now and for the future.

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31 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I think WR is absolutely a need right now.

The success of this team is directly tied to Stafford's arm. Right now, we've got a 'good' starting unit of pass-catchers, assuming Amendola returns. That being said, Marvin Jones is close to 30 and entering the final year of his contract, and this offense is one Golladay or Jones injury away from declining significantly. It just so happens that this draft class is incredibly deep at the WR position.

We can make other moves at other areas on the field, to include re-signing Glasgow and hunting a high profile free agent or two. That being said, we're in position to land a great WR in the first two rounds of this draft, a move that improves this team both now and for the future.

I'm aware of all this and it doesn't answer my question. 

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17 minutes ago, detroitroar said:

I'm aware of all this and it doesn't answer my question. 

Oh.

Last page I posted this:

It's difficult to know exactly what we need prior to the start of free agency, as I feel that many positions can/will be upgraded or supplemented with free agents this year. I do believe that Wagner's time may be coming to an end, and I think bringing Conklin back to MI is a possibility. I also hope that they hold onto Glasgow, and that A'Shawn and Snacks both return. Knowing that, I don't have RT, LG or DT as high as they would be if none of those players were signed or retained.

1. Edge pressure

2. CB

3. WR

4. OG

5. DT depth/prospect

6. LB depth/prospect

7. RB

Without Snacks and A'Shawn, DT moves up substantially, as does OG without Glasgow (or another free agent). I also believe that Hand is a quality rotational piece that was sorely missed in 2019, and him coming back healthy would be huge for this team.

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12 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I think WR is absolutely a need right now.

The success of this team is directly tied to Stafford's arm. Right now, we've got a 'good' starting unit of pass-catchers, assuming Amendola returns. That being said, Marvin Jones is close to 30 and entering the final year of his contract, and this offense is one Golladay or Jones injury away from declining significantly. It just so happens that this draft class is incredibly deep at the WR position.

We can make other moves at other areas on the field, to include re-signing Glasgow and hunting a high profile free agent or two. That being said, we're in position to land a great WR in the first two rounds of this draft, a move that improves this team both now and for the future.

But isn't this the problem?  Stafford is great.  I don't want to see him go anywhere and I feel he is very undervalued by a lot of people.  However, the success of this team has ALWAYS been tied to Staffords arm. Would it not be better to strengthen the team rather than just Stafford? With such a deep WR class would it not make more sense to get play makers on D or sure up the OL and grab a good wr in the 3rd or 4th? A good OL is going to keep Stafford from breaking his back a 3rd year in a row. And if this happens, we are screwed again. All this is barring any sort of trade down.  If we have multiple picks in the 1st and 2nd then I'm better with it, but as it stands now, not so much.  Also, I'm not trying to ignore your comment about FA, but I've commented on this in the past.

Edited by LionArkie

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12 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

I feel very strongly about multiple things here. 

1. WR is a huge need both short and long term

2. This WR draft is one of the 2 best WR drafts since I've been watching drafts(95)

3. WR is value position #3

4. We will acquire 18, 26 or both from Miami in a trade down

The way things fall, its simply going to be real hard for me to not be at least mildly disappointed with no WR by 35. I'd rather have one at 3 than none at all tbh.

4. We will acquire 18, 26 or both from Miami in a trade down > They are not getting both of those 1st round picks to move down two spots. I hope that I'm wrong but I highly, highly doubt it. 

This is one of the deepest WR classes to date. Which means that some VERY talented guys will be available later in the draft - either talented WR's that have been pushed down because teams are still drafting like it's a normal draft and/or talented players at other positions will be available  because teams are biting on the WR's too early. 

I don't disagree that we need to add some talent to the WR room but forcing a pick by #35 seems like a panic move. 

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14 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Oh.

Last page I posted this:

It's difficult to know exactly what we need prior to the start of free agency, as I feel that many positions can/will be upgraded or supplemented with free agents this year. I do believe that Wagner's time may be coming to an end, and I think bringing Conklin back to MI is a possibility. I also hope that they hold onto Glasgow, and that A'Shawn and Snacks both return. Knowing that, I don't have RT, LG or DT as high as they would be if none of those players were signed or retained.

1. Edge pressure

2. CB

3. WR

4. OG

5. DT depth/prospect

6. LB depth/prospect

7. RB

Without Snacks and A'Shawn, DT moves up substantially, as does OG without Glasgow (or another free agent). I also believe that Hand is a quality rotational piece that was sorely missed in 2019, and him coming back healthy would be huge for this team.

Why CB so high and RB so low?

And I get that were not exactly stacked at WR going forward, but it was probably our strongest position last year and our front seven was horrendous and running game still not a factor. 

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14 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Oh.

Last page I posted this:

It's difficult to know exactly what we need prior to the start of free agency, as I feel that many positions can/will be upgraded or supplemented with free agents this year. I do believe that Wagner's time may be coming to an end, and I think bringing Conklin back to MI is a possibility. I also hope that they hold onto Glasgow, and that A'Shawn and Snacks both return. Knowing that, I don't have RT, LG or DT as high as they would be if none of those players were signed or retained.

1. Edge pressure

2. CB

3. WR

4. OG

5. DT depth/prospect

6. LB depth/prospect

7. RB

Without Snacks and A'Shawn, DT moves up substantially, as does OG without Glasgow (or another free agent). I also believe that Hand is a quality rotational piece that was sorely missed in 2019, and him coming back healthy would be huge for this team.

The problem with Wagner is that if you cut him, he's a $5.8M cap hit PLUS you have to sign his replacement. So we bring in Conklin, pay him his $15M/year + Wagner's $5.8M cap hit for $20.8M invested in the RT. Maybe it works out a bit differently with how the contract is structured but that's a hefty amount slotted there. 

1. Pressure - Inside or Edge, we need to be able to generate pressure from 3 and 4 man fronts. However we do that, I don't really care. 

2. CB - With the team's emphasis on the secondary and the potential trade of Slay, this is more like items 2 and 3 to me. 

4. OG - Wagner struggled with injuries, so he could bounce back and be more serviceable. We need someone that can help and take some of the pressure off of him

5. DL - starter + depth - We're likely going to lose Snacks and/or A'Shawn. Mike Daniels coming back is a question mark. Hand has battled injuries and can't be relied upon. We're going to need to add guys here without a doubt. 

6/7 - LB/RB - Either of these could be 6 or 7. Doesn't really matter. We need to add depth that can turn into a potential starter as some starters aren't reliable thanks to injury (Kerryon) or play (J. Davis)

8 - WR - The team has TJ Hockenson coming back, Kenny is going to get paid, Marvin J is back and Marvin Hall has some potential. As long as Stafford is at QB, they're going to be able to move the ball. I'm confident that the team will find some guys in FA and the draft who will fill in some of the gaps. If we add extra draft capital, I wouldn't complain about taking an elite level guy in rounds 2 or 3 as Marvin's replacement. 

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11 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

4. We will acquire 18, 26 or both from Miami in a trade down > They are not getting both of those 1st round picks to move down two spots. I hope that I'm wrong but I highly, highly doubt it. 

This is one of the deepest WR classes to date. Which means that some VERY talented guys will be available later in the draft - either talented WR's that have been pushed down because teams are still drafting like it's a normal draft and/or talented players at other positions will be available  because teams are biting on the WR's too early. 

I don't disagree that we need to add some talent to the WR room but forcing a pick by #35 seems like a panic move. 

More has been paid, all I'm sayin'

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8 hours ago, detroitroar said:

Why CB so high and RB so low?

And I get that were not exactly stacked at WR going forward, but it was probably our strongest position last year and our front seven was horrendous and running game still not a factor. 

CB is the most valuable non QB position and RB is the least. Also our RBs were productive while our coverage was our main negative last season.

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