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TL-TwoWinsAway

The Argument for a 2nd Round WR

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2 hours ago, Nastradamus said:

CB is the most valuable non QB position and RB is the least. Also our RBs were productive while our coverage was our main negative last season.

I dont agree with that at all.

Our coverage was solid considering the league worst pass rush we toted out.

I guess we just have 2 different ideas on how well we want to run the ball.

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12 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

The problem with Wagner is that if you cut him, he's a $5.8M cap hit PLUS you have to sign his replacement. So we bring in Conklin, pay him his $15M/year + Wagner's $5.8M cap hit for $20.8M invested in the RT. Maybe it works out a bit differently with how the contract is structured but that's a hefty amount slotted there.

I don't think this is accurate. Wagner's cap hit is $11.9M and his dead cap is $5.8M, so we'd still clear some money by moving him.

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8 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I don't think this is accurate. Wagner's cap hit is $11.9M and his dead cap is $5.8M, so we'd still clear some money by moving him.

We'd clear some money but we'd have to replace him with somebody else (ex. Conklin) at $15M + $5.8M (Wagner's dead cap hit) = $20.8M committed to RT. 

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14 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

We'd clear some money but we'd have to replace him with somebody else (ex. Conklin) at $15M + $5.8M (Wagner's dead cap hit) = $20.8M committed to RT. 

Given our cap situation and the fact we have space, I am all for it.  Its only one year that we would have that tied up in RT and the production would likely be greatly improved.  The 5.8 is a sunk cost either way, you can't use that as a determining factor in making the team better.  I personally would rather have 20M tied up and feel comfortable with the position than have 12M tied up and still need an upgrade. 

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Just now, Sllim Pickens said:

Given our cap situation and the fact we have space, I am all for it.  Its only one year that we would have that tied up in RT and the production would likely be greatly improved.  The 5.8 is a sunk cost either way, you can't use that as a determining factor in making the team better.  I personally would rather have 20M tied up and feel comfortable with the position than have 12M tied up and still need an upgrade. 

I'd rather look at the draft for his replacement than have that kind of money invested into RT. We need to add a piece to the tackle situation anyway with Decker's contract coming up. 

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6 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

I'd rather look at the draft for his replacement than have that kind of money invested into RT. We need to add a piece to the tackle situation anyway with Decker's contract coming up. 

We can still do that.  Also the draft is similar money for any position.  So if we sign a RT and then draft a WR or draft a RT and sign a WR, it will come up with similar money.  So i don't really care about the allocation between the two as long as both are improved. (Note you can sub any position into that besides WR and it is the same concept).  If we want to get better, we have to spend money.  RT is one of our weakest spots IMO, along with RG.  RG tends to be easier for a rookie to fill so I'd rather spend more on a proven RT and draft an OG than vice versa.  We have plenty of cap space, and will likely have trouble spending it all on worthy players anyways, so i dont really care how we spend it. 

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38 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

We can still do that.  Also the draft is similar money for any position.  So if we sign a RT and then draft a WR or draft a RT and sign a WR, it will come up with similar money.  So i don't really care about the allocation between the two as long as both are improved. (Note you can sub any position into that besides WR and it is the same concept).  If we want to get better, we have to spend money.  RT is one of our weakest spots IMO, along with RG.  RG tends to be easier for a rookie to fill so I'd rather spend more on a proven RT and draft an OG than vice versa.  We have plenty of cap space, and will likely have trouble spending it all on worthy players anyways, so i dont really care how we spend it. 

Jawaan Taylor is an OT drafted at #35 last year by the Jags. His cap hit was $1.4M. Wagner is going to be $11.9M. So we're looking at a situation where either we're spending $13.3M (we keep Wagner) or $7.2M (we cut Wagner) if we go the rookie route and find a guy in the higher end of the draft. Comparatively, we're looking at $20.8M if we sign a FA and cut Wagner. Even on the top end of things, that's a $7.5M difference in cap hit. That money could be better allocated to address some of our other holes. I'm not against spending, I just prefer to doing it wisely. 

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28 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Jawaan Taylor is an OT drafted at #35 last year by the Jags. His cap hit was $1.4M. Wagner is going to be $11.9M. So we're looking at a situation where either we're spending $13.3M (we keep Wagner) or $7.2M (we cut Wagner) if we go the rookie route and find a guy in the higher end of the draft. Comparatively, we're looking at $20.8M if we sign a FA and cut Wagner. Even on the top end of things, that's a $7.5M difference in cap hit. That money could be better allocated to address some of our other holes. I'm not against spending, I just prefer to doing it wisely. 

If we don't spend the money on a RT and instead spend it on say, an OG, or a LB, or a DE, or a whatever position you want, we will be using that money.  We also will be paying a rookie that same amount, no matter his position.  So if we spend more on RT by signing one and then save money on a DE by drafting one, we are still in the same boat at the end of the day.  And its one year that we have that much ties up in RT, a year in which we have an awful lot of cap space.  Last year we sat on $20 mil in cap space.  So I dont really care how much we have tied up in one position, as long as it makes the team better.  If we sign a Arik Armstead at DE for say 18Mil a year, and draft a RT that we pay 1.4M, plus the 5.6 dead cap for cutting Wagner equals 25M between the two positions.  If we sign Conklin and draft a pass rusher/lineman like Neville Gallimore in the 2nd, we are spending the same amount of money, and both greatly help the team. 

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11 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

We'd clear some money but we'd have to replace him with somebody else (ex. Conklin) at $15M + $5.8M (Wagner's dead cap hit) = $20.8M committed to RT. 

That's an interesting way of looking at it.

As pointed out by Sllim (I believe), that dead cap exists regardless. I don't think that the existence of said dead cap should be the reason that we shy away from upgrading the position.

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