Top 10 QBs of 2010s

[RabidPanther89]

On 2/14/2020 at 1:02 PM, dtait93 said:

Mariota>Newton as a passer. Better completion percentage, passer rating, INT%, Y/A, AY/A, NY/A, ANY/A. The results are in, and you're wrong. Mariota got more out of each pass while being more accurate and less turnover prone.

No he doesn't. You're just cherry picking an arbitrary stat and saying SEeeUH GUyZ  CaMS WORse ThEn MArIoTa!

First of all Cam has way more attempts than Mariotta. He's thrown over 400 attempts  every year of his career. Something Mariotta has done only twice. QB rating will look better when you don't pass as much. Cam's also never thrown more picks than touchdowns(Unlike Marcus) and if you go season by season Cam's TD- INT is better. And while you can argue completion percentage Cam is better at chunk plays, besting Marcus in 20+ and 40+ plays. Cam also until the addition of CMC and Norv Turner wasn't dinking and dunking. He was picking up the short yardage gains by running. Why? Not because dtait93 is going to one day argue about his completion %. But because the smart play is to pick up the yards himself where no one can stop him, when his receivers have been notorious for dropped passes for a few years now.

Cam is also a more clutch player has 17 game winning drives and 15 QTR comebacks, among one of the leaders of his peers entering the league around the same time, despite essentially not playing last year. And if you look at 2018 Cam shouldn't have been playing the last half of the season anyway. And despite the downward spiral of that year he was still voted as the most underrated QB in the NFL,  https://www.al.com/sports/2019/01/player-poll-picks-cam-newton-as-nfls-most-underrated-quarterback.html  . 

 Kyle Allen once had 10 TD and 1 INT. Yet he got exposed and looked like trash. These stats don't mean anything without context. And you can't entirely separate Cam's rushing stats from his passing because his running affects his passing game, the down, the distance, the situation...etc.

https://imgur.com/DJAGlOp

https://imgur.com/hgKL74R

Edited February 15, 2020 by RabidPanther89

[Tk3]

wtf are we doing here?

This is top 10 QBs of the decade and we are arguing Mariota vs Cam????

I'll help

Cam is fringe top 10. I'd put him on the outside, but I understand an argument either way

Mariota doesn't even sniff the top 10

[dtait93]

6 hours ago, RabidPanther89 said:

No he doesn't. You're just cherry picking an arbitrary stat and saying SEeeUH GUyZ  CaMS WORse ThEn MArIoTa!

Quite the contrary. I gave you multiple primary stats all QB's are judged by. That's not cherry picking. You're just being sensitive because your a Panthers fan.

 

6 hours ago, RabidPanther89 said:

First of all Cam has way more attempts than Mariotta. He's thrown over 400 attempts  every year of his career. Something Mariotta has done only twice. QB rating will look better when you don't pass as much. Cam's also never thrown more picks than touchdowns(Unlike Marcus) and if you go season by season Cam's TD- INT is better. And while you can argue completion percentage Cam is better at chunk plays, besting Marcus in 20+ and 40+ plays. Cam also until the addition of CMC and Norv Turner wasn't dinking and dunking. He was picking up the short yardage gains by running. Why? Not because dtait93 is going to one day argue about his completion %. But because the smart play is to pick up the yards himself where no one can stop him, when his receivers have been notorious for dropped passes for a few years now.

You're going season to season so it's easier for you to bend your false narrative. Calling me the cherry picker is quite ironic. Going according to the totality of what the player put together is the most accurate way of observing the data.

Also, I'm not arguing completion percentage because it's not even an argument. Mariota was clearly and easily the more accurate QB.

Speaking of 20+ and 40+ yard plays, Mariota was actually better in those categories too having averaged more 20+ and 40+ yard plays per attempt. So it was Mariota who is better at chunk plays. Couple that with him averaging more yards per attempt (Y/A, AY/A, NY/A, ANY/A) and being the more accurate QB and my point stands - Mariota got more out of each pass while being more accurate and less turnover prone.

Chunk plays: Mariota>Cam

Accuracy: Mariota>Cam

Efficiency: Mariota>Cam

 

6 hours ago, RabidPanther89 said:

Cam is also a more clutch player has 17 game winning drives and 15 QTR comebacks, among one of the leaders of his peers entering the league around the same time, despite essentially not playing last year. And if you look at 2018 Cam shouldn't have been playing the last half of the season anyway. And despite the downward spiral of that year he was still voted as the most underrated QB in the NFL

Wrong. Mariota is actually the more clutch player. Mariota has 11 game winning drives and 9 4th quarter comebacks in 63 games - 16.67% and 14.28% respectively. Compare that to Newton's 17 game winning drives and 15 4th quarter comebacks in 125 games - 13.6% and 12% respectively, and it's clear Mariota is more clutch. Also, if you look at 2018 for Mariota, forget half the season, he shouldn't have played the entire season because of a numb throwing hand that he injured in week 1 that lasted the entirety of the season. We can do the if game all day.

Clutchness: Mariota>Cam

Also I don't care about player votings. The NFL top 100 players is a joke every single year and that's voted by, you guessed it, the players.

 

6 hours ago, RabidPanther89 said:

And you can't entirely separate Cam's rushing stats from his passing because his running affects his passing game, the down, the distance, the situation...etc.

Sure I can. I can observe his effectiveness as a runner and his effectiveness as a passer. Being that he's such a great running back, the down, the distance, the situation...etc should all be easier....and yet he's a terrible passer. Worse than Mariota even.

Edited February 16, 2020 by dtait93
grammar

[dtait93]

7 hours ago, Tk3 said:

wtf are we doing here?

This is top 10 QBs of the decade and we are arguing Mariota vs Cam????

I'll help

Cam is fringe top 10. I'd put him on the outside, but I understand an argument either way

Mariota doesn't even sniff the top 10

Cam's the better player, that's not the discussion.

The discussion is Cam being a terrible passer. So terrible that he's worse than a scrub like Marcus Mariota.

[wackywabbit]

From 2010-2019, Joe Flacco in the playoffs:

7-3 record, 256.3 YPG, 7.84 YPA, 2.4 TD/game, 0.4 INT/game, 1 SB MVP

Regular season:

78-61 record, 240 YPG, 6.69 YPA, 1.3 TD/game, 0.8 INT/game

He's probably in the mix, but falls short of the 10 spot. But, 30 years from now you can't tell the story of that decade of football without explaining Joe Flacco.

[DreamKid]

28 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

From 2010-2019, Joe Flacco in the playoffs:

7-3 record, 256.3 YPG, 7.84 YPA, 2.4 TD/game, 0.4 INT/game, 1 SB MVP

Year 3 and on, Joe's ability to elevate in the playoffs with a meh supporting cast and a (majority of the time)dysfunctional/lacking offensive coaching nucleus was special. He's the classic student that can't get it all the way together for the majority of the year, but is able to center themselves for the end run finals. A highly frustrating at times, yet in the end highly valuable quality for a starting QB.

He was the perfect contrast to the larger than life personas on the Ravens' defense during that era, and still a classic Raven in his own right. Injuries and the regression that followed, along with a continued talent drought at the skill positions around him, facilitated a pretty unfortunate end to his run with the club. He'll deserve all the love he gets post retirement though.

Flacco carved out a unique place in NFL history. Kind of like the league's Keanu Reeves imo. Reeves was always likable but frequently mocked for his overall ability. The John Wick series sparked a comeback and career renaissance for him, while the Matrix series made his name eternal. People will look back on him as a unique/singular Hollywood character that cemented himself in history with a more limited/specialized hit rate and unconventional path than his peers. That's kind of who Flacco is too. 

I also feel like the Flacco era really gave the Ravens, an organization not known in anyway for developing offensive talent, an invaluable and clear example of what you should and shouldn't do for a young franchise QB(and offense). The team failed him in many ways, and you wonder what kind of player he could've been with a better surrounding cast, offensive system, and coaching. Kudos to them for learning from their mistakes though, and putting Lamar in the best possible position for success. That's what the strong franchises do.

Flacco to Lamar will probably end up as one of the more unique franchise QB successions for a club in NFL history- especially if Jackson is able to rip a championship just as Flacco was. 

[Synopsis]

Someone is really saying Mariota is better than Cam? Jfc 

Cam is top 10.

[dtait93]

On 2/16/2020 at 2:52 PM, Synopsis said:

Someone is really saying Mariota is better than Cam? Jfc 

Cam is top 10.

Reading comprehension would really help you.

[RabidPanther89]

On 2/15/2020 at 11:05 PM, dtait93 said:

Quite the contrary. I gave you multiple primary stats all QB's are judged by. That's not cherry picking. You're just being sensitive because your a Panthers fan.

 

You're going season to season so it's easier for you to bend your false narrative. Calling me the cherry picker is quite ironic. Going according to the totality of what the player put together is the most accurate way of observing the data.

Also, I'm not arguing completion percentage because it's not even an argument. Mariota was clearly and easily the more accurate QB.

Speaking of 20+ and 40+ yard plays, Mariota was actually better in those categories too having averaged more 20+ and 40+ yard plays per attempt. So it was Mariota who is better at chunk plays. Couple that with him averaging more yards per attempt (Y/A, AY/A, NY/A, ANY/A) and being the more accurate QB and my point stands - Mariota got more out of each pass while being more accurate and less turnover prone.

Chunk plays: Mariota>Cam

Accuracy: Mariota>Cam

Efficiency: Mariota>Cam

 

Wrong. Mariota is actually the more clutch player. Mariota has 11 game winning drives and 9 4th quarter comebacks in 63 games - 16.67% and 14.28% respectively. Compare that to Newton's 17 game winning drives and 15 4th quarter comebacks in 125 games - 13.6% and 12% respectively, and it's clear Mariota is more clutch. Also, if you look at 2018 for Mariota, forget half the season, he shouldn't have played the entire season because of a numb throwing hand that he injured in week 1 that lasted the entirety of the season. We can do the if game all day.

Clutchness: Mariota>Cam

Also I don't care about player votings. The NFL top 100 players is a joke every single year and that's voted by, you guessed it, the players.

 

Sure I can. I can observe his effectiveness as a runner and his effectiveness as a passer. Being that he's such a great running back, the down, the distance, the situation...etc should all be easier....and yet he's a terrible passer. Worse than Mariota even.

No what that means is that Cam is not taking the lay up throws, he's running for them. He's not inflating his completion % with short easy passes. Cam has been the function of the Panthers running game for 7+ years. When the offensive line isn't run blocking well enough he is forced into 2nd and long, 3rd and long situations. He's played in a high risk high reward offense nearly his entire career until the addition of CMC. When Cam was healthy with Norv Tuner he was on his way to a career season and was in another MVP discussion.

On 2/15/2020 at 11:34 PM, dtait93 said:

Cam's the better player, that's not the discussion.

The discussion is Cam being a terrible passer. So terrible that he's worse than a scrub like Marcus Mariota.

No he isn’t. But somehow I guess you know something that the that entire consensus of the NFL and It’s players doesn’t. The discussion  is top 10 QBs of the decade and that isn’t dictated only by passing stats, especially with a player like Cam who is one of the unique players in the NFL. You separating Cams running from his passing is just you moving the goal post so you can make him look as you want. Literally no one is buying what you’re selling. And a hurt thumb isn’t the same as a bum throwing shoulder, or a lisfranc and not be able step into the throws,  again ignoring context. You even saying that just shows you weren’t watching the games. He couldn’t throw over 15 yards the last 6 games of the 2018 season.  If Cams a better player then he’s also a better QB. You narrowing the scope to make a petty argument is just that. And no year to year TD-INT is a better indicator, because it’s clearly showing that Cam is throwing more TDs than he is INTs, in a better manner than Mariota.

Cam 

2019 0tds-1ints(If you are really going to count it)

2018, 24td- 13ints 

2017, 22td-16ints

2016, 19td-14ints

2015, 35td-10ints

2014, 18td-12ints

2013, 24td-13ints

2012, 19td-12ints 

2011, 21td-17ints

Mariotta 

2019, 7td-2ints

2018, 11td-8ints

2017, 13td-15ints

2016, 26td-9ints

2015, 19td- 10ints

 

All you’re really saying with your small sample size percentage stats is that Mariotta might be better than some are giving him credit for, numbers that would likely suffer through time. He still isn’t Cams caliber. Kirk Cousins has great stats too but everyone knows he isn’t a franchise QB. In fact his stats are better than Matt Staffords, should he be on the list too? Kyle Allen was the greatest of all time until week 8. If he retired just before the game against SF maybe he would have made the HOF.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by RabidPanther89

[dtait93]

21 hours ago, RabidPanther89 said:

No what that means is that Cam is not taking the lay up throws, he's running for them. He's not inflating his completion % with short easy passes. Cam has been the function of the Panthers running game for 7+ years. When the offensive line isn't run blocking well enough he is forced into 2nd and long, 3rd and long situations. He's played in a high risk high reward offense nearly his entire career until the addition of CMC. When Cam was healthy with Norv Tuner he was on his way to a career season and was in another MVP discussion.

So basically what your saying is Cam only attempts intermediate and deep passes because he's running even when the easy short throws are there to be had? Not only is that a bold face lie, but it would also make him an idiot. If what you're saying were true his yards per attempt would be MUCH higher. Another lie debunked, just like the Cam>Mariota clutchness and chunk play fib you tried to spew.

Congratulations, all QB's are forced in to 2nd/3rd and long situations if the offensive line isn't run blocking well enough and a run play is called. Cam can't overcome it because he's an erratic and inaccurate passer.

 

21 hours ago, RabidPanther89 said:

No he isn’t. But somehow I guess you know something that the that entire consensus of the NFL and It’s players doesn’t. The discussion  is top 10 QBs of the decade and that isn’t dictated only by passing stats, especially with a player like Cam who is one of the unique players in the NFL. You separating Cams running from his passing is just you moving the goal post so you can make him look as you want. Literally no one is buying what you’re selling. And a hurt thumb isn’t the same as a bum throwing shoulder, or a lisfranc and not be able step into the throws,  again ignoring context. You even saying that just shows you weren’t watching the games. He couldn’t throw over 15 yards the last 6 games of the 2018 season.  If Cams a better player then he’s also a better QB. You narrowing the scope to make a petty argument is just that. And no year to year TD-INT is a better indicator, because it’s clearly showing that Cam is throwing more TDs than he is INTs, in a better manner than Mariota.

I know what the discussion is. When you evaluate a player you break their game down. For a dual threat like Cam you evaluate his ability as a runner and his ability as a passer. He's great at running which he gets credit for, but because he isn't a good passer even after the defense has to account for him as a runner he deserves criticism. Because of that he doesn't sniff the top 10 for me because I value a QB's ability to throw more than his ability to run. It's not moving the goal posts, it's called evaluating a player and his abilities/inabilities, you should learn the difference. Your just butt hurt because your a Panthers fan.

As for this injury card you keep pulling - Newsflash! All players get injured. Nobody gets excuses. Do you even know what an injured ulnar nerve is? It definitely isn't a, "hurt thumb" LOL. Talk about ignoring context . Do you even know the injuries Mariota sustained and played with in 2018? I'll fill you in since it was clearly you who didn't watch. An injured ulnar nerve, 2 neck stingers, cracked vertebra, plantar fascia tear, strained oblique, broken rib, and a sprained AC shoulder joint. But hey Newton was soooo much more hurt . (Btw I've watched nearly every snap of Newton's career).

Lastly, TD-INT ratio and ignoring the big picture is actually a terrible indicator. If that were the case Mariota was actually on his way to the best season of his career last year when he was actually playing terrible.

 

23 hours ago, RabidPanther89 said:

All you’re really saying with your small sample size percentage stats is that Mariotta might be better than some are giving him credit for, numbers that would likely suffer through time. He still isn’t Cams caliber. Kirk Cousins has great stats too but everyone knows he isn’t a franchise QB. In fact his stats are better than Matt Staffords, should he be on the list too? Kyle Allen was the greatest of all time until week 8. If he retired just before the game against SF maybe he would have made the HOF.

63 games is a small sample size? What are you even talking about lol... 63 games is ~4 seasons. You get to know who a player is in that amount of time which is why you see all first round draft picks sign 4 year deals lol.

And I wouldn't fault someone for going with Cousins over Stafford. After all, his TD-INT ratio that you worship is better than Stafford's and he has a playoff W 

[RabidPanther89]

Christ dude. You enjoy living in willful ignorance land where the best QBs live in the fantasy stat land of arm chair QBs. I’m not a butthurt Panthers fan. I just recognize there is more to the game than stats that don’t matter. We’re gonna have to agree to disagree here before the thread is derailed.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by RabidPanther89

[dtait93]

6 minutes ago, RabidPanther89 said:

Christ dude. You enjoy living in willful ignorance land where the best QBs live in the fantasy stat land of arm chair QBs. I’m not a butthurt Panthers fan. I just recognize there is more to the game than stats that don’t matter. We’re gonna have to agree to disagree here before the thread is derailed.

I mean I'm just glad you're done spreading lies tbh.

[RabidPanther89]

25 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

I mean I'm just glad you're done spreading lies tbh.

That’s a nice petty  cheap comment. Congrats. Anyone reading this thread though can see for themselves you’ve got a Cam hating agenda. I took apart your ignorant falsehoods. You want to keep slinging crap on the wall and see if that sticks that fine. But it’s nice to know that Cam Newton will still be living rent free in your head when more of these threads come up in the future.

Edited February 19, 2020 by RabidPanther89

[dtait93]

14 minutes ago, RabidPanther89 said:

I took apart your ignorant falsehoods.

No you didn't. If anything you look more silly by saying Cam chooses to run when he could hit an easy layup throw . Ignorant falsehood at it's finest.

[RabidPanther89]

1 minute ago, dtait93 said:

No you didn't. If anything you look more silly by saying Cam chooses to run when he could hit an easy layup throw . Ignorant falsehood at it's finest.

I bet you laugh to yourself a lot.