Guest Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 59 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: Anything short of a playoff appearance should result in a change. If the Vikings lose in the wild card or divisional rounds I think a change should be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I wasn’t on the Zimmer bandwagon at the end of the season, but you don’t get rid of a coach that gets you to the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said: If the Vikings lose in the wild card or divisional rounds I think a change should be made. That is way too harsh. I would say making the playoffs again, similar to what Semper has indicated, should be the minimum. If they don't make the playoffs, then that puts the whole thing up in the air, but to suggest that he should be fired unless he makes the NFC Championship Game, that's unreasonable, as far as I'm concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perrynoid Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I just don't think we are that far off. What I mean is, we were only weak at 4 positions last season: C, LG, 3-tech and CB. Hopefully, Bradbury can gain some strength in the off-season and not be a liability. We will more than likely draft the other positions or fill the spots internally. My chief concern is that we lose too many free agents and our roster becomes depleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, swede700 said: That is way too harsh. I would say making the playoffs again, similar to what Semper has indicated, should be the minimum. If they don't make the playoffs, then that puts the whole thing up in the air, but to suggest that he should be fired unless he makes the NFC Championship Game, that's unreasonable, as far as I'm concerned. What is the ultimate goal of the Vikings organization? Do you believe that this coaching staff and front office can achieve that goal? What evidence exists that the goal can be attained in the near future? If the evidence does not exist, what needs to be proven this off season and in the 2020 season? I think that these are fundamental questions that everyone needs to be asking, but most especially the Wilf's. I know how I answer those questions. It would be interesting to know others thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENINCH Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Sure would like to see what he could do with a Patrick Mahomes type player. Few and far between but now Andy Reid is regarded as some great coach when he's had Franchise QB's nearly his entire coaching career. Zimmer has been shafted on QB's since he got here outside of getting Cousins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said: Do you believe that this coaching staff and front office can achieve that goal? What evidence exists that the goal can be attained in the near future? Yes, I do. And the evidence is that this team was just in the NFC Championship Game 2 years ago and made it to the divisional round this past season, despite getting subpar play from their DBs. I fully think if they get enough improvement from the offensive line and from the younger players in secondary, they'll be right there again. The reality is that while the NFC is deeper than the AFC, teams like the 49ers aren't that much better than them. Just examine the entirety of the conference, what teams are insurmountable? I can't find one. The Cowboys, while more talented, aren't necessarily going to be better than they were, considering an entirely new coaching staff. The Eagles, Giants and Washington? I'm not sure any of them are going to be any better than the Vikings? In the North, the Packers, Bears and Lions? The Bears have a shot to get back to where they were a year ago, but the Packers? I can't imagine they're going to be able to duplicate their success...and the Lions are the Lions. The South? The Saints will likely be one of the better teams whether Brees comes back or not, but there's questions about who their QB will be. The Falcons? We've been waiting for them to return to their success, and it hasn't happened for 2 years...The Bucs and Panthers? They could go either way, but not expecting them to be all that competitive. The West? There's the 49ers and then everyone else. The Seahawks will certainly be a tough out as always, but their talent is really thin. The Cardinals and Rams? Rams could go either way and the Cardinals, they have yet to show anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 3 hours ago, SemperFeist said: Anything short of a playoff appearance should result in a change. Pretty much this. I do think Zimmer needs to make the playoffs more consistently, the 2018 (8-7-1) season was pretty bad. If we make it in 2018 he's made the playoffs in 3 consecutive seasons and 4 out of 6 seasons. I really want Zimmer to be the coach that gets us a SB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 53 minutes ago, swede700 said: Yes, I do. And the evidence is that this team was just in the NFC Championship Game 2 years ago and made it to the divisional round this past season, despite getting subpar play from their DBs. I fully think if they get enough improvement from the offensive line and from the younger players in secondary, they'll be right there again. The reality is that while the NFC is deeper than the AFC, teams like the 49ers aren't that much better than them. Just examine the entirety of the conference, what teams are insurmountable? I can't find one. The Cowboys, while more talented, aren't necessarily going to be better than they were, considering an entirely new coaching staff. The Eagles, Giants and Washington? I'm not sure any of them are going to be any better than the Vikings? In the North, the Packers, Bears and Lions? The Bears have a shot to get back to where they were a year ago, but the Packers? I can't imagine they're going to be able to duplicate their success...and the Lions are the Lions. The South? The Saints will likely be one of the better teams whether Brees comes back or not, but there's questions about who their QB will be. The Falcons? We've been waiting for them to return to their success, and it hasn't happened for 2 years...The Bucs and Panthers? They could go either way, but not expecting them to be all that competitive. The West? There's the 49ers and then everyone else. The Seahawks will certainly be a tough out as always, but their talent is really thin. The Cardinals and Rams? Rams could go either way and the Cardinals, they have yet to show anything. I see a pretty big overall talent gulf between the 49'ers and everyone else in the NFC. But, looking at the Cowboys and Eagles in the East, The Bears and maybe the Packers in the North, The Saints in the South, Rams and Seahawks in the West...each one of these teams seems to be in a similar situation as the Vikings; in that, an improvement here or there, and they are in the running. Now, not all these teams...throwing in the Vikings...are going to improve AND, I suspect, that some will have significant regression when they cannot improve. I think that's possible for the Vikings, because Minnesota has the worst cap situation in the league. While the team tries to improve the offensive line, the defensive line, the secondary...they won't be able to do it all in the draft...and there's no money to spend in free agency. In order to improve the lines and the secondary, AND upgrade WR3 and QB2, the Vikings will have to shed talent in other areas. Part of me truly believes that the best thing that could happen to the Vikings in 2020 is to go 6-10 (or worse), let Cousins, Zimmer and Spielman go, trade away some of the teams parts (H. Smith, Diggs, Cook, Thielen, Kendricks, etc...) and start over with a major youth and rebuilding movement. But, another part of me realizes that a solid rebuilding might take 4 or 5 years, and well, I ain't getting any younger. I feel that there really needs to be more urgency to win it all. Yet, it seems like many in the organization are satisfied with a winning record or a position in the playoffs. Heck, Vike Daddy's warranty has expired...he might throw a gasket at any moment, Robb K, me and a few others are about to head into our "golden" years...which means we're aboard horses heading for the ol' sunset! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 The 49ers obviously have had the benefit of being crappy for many years, but their window of salary cap heaven is rapidly closing already, as Buckner and Kittle are both due for extensions, Armstead, Sanders and Ward are free agents now...and they don't have a lot of draft picks this year to help replenish their depth, especially with a good portion of their secondary having contracts that expire after this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Virginia Viking said: What is the ultimate goal of the Vikings organization? Do you believe that this coaching staff and front office can achieve that goal? What evidence exists that the goal can be attained in the near future? If the evidence does not exist, what needs to be proven this off season and in the 2020 season? I think that these are fundamental questions that everyone needs to be asking, but most especially the Wilf's. I know how I answer those questions. It would be interesting to know others thoughts. The ultimate goal of the Vikings organization is to win the Super Bowl. If our owners are of the mindset that the ultimate goal is to maximize profits then I am for them selling the team. Owning an NFL franchise should not be about maximizing profits. If that is what a a rich guy wants to do I would prefer they find a different investment. I do not believe that this coaching staff and front office will win the Super Bowl. They have been unable to get it done and they are not very flexible and are very slow to learn from mistakes that hold the team back. I expect to keep seeing the same thing for as long as the front office and coaching staff are together. It is a terrible waste of some of the things they do well, some of which they do very well. The evidence that exists that I may be wrong and they may be able to bring the team and its fans a Super Bowl victory is the fact that they are good enough to get the team to the playoffs and once they are there anything can happen. Any given Sunday... For me, it is mostly too late for them to prove what is needed this offsesason and in 2020, but if there is one thing that could prove me wrong it is for them to put it all together this year and win the Super Bowl. Short of that, and I am going to continue looking forward to the day that my hope is buoyed by a leadership transition. By now I am starting to wonder whether that will require a transition in ownership as the number of red flags are starting to pile up there. For now, I haven't put down all hope in Wilf as he has done some great things but by this time next year I may no longer think the main problem with the organization is the general manager. That is my opinions on your questions. I expect that some will disagree with my opinion. That is fine. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything; I am just sharing my thoughts with respect to the questions that you asked, which seem like relevant questions. Edited February 13, 2020 by Cearbhall 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) Why would a rich owner not have the ultimate goal of maximizing profits? At the end of the day, the Vikes really aren’t any different than other private businesses. Winning might be a component of maximizing profits and fortunately the Vikes have seemingly won enough to keep fan interest high. Because of profit sharing though, there is certainly less incentive to have perform on the field at a super bow level. I’d venture to guess that most NFL owners really don’t care about winning a super bowl at the end of the day as long there remains a loyal fan base and interest level is regularly high, in other words, they are pulling their weight in regards to their team and profit sharing. The Wilfs might just be okay with Zimmer/Spielman, they get to the playoffs every other year, seek a team full of high character players, and make competitive moves in the offseason. It’s not like fans will stop supporting the team if this trend continues for another ten years. Then you have owners like Jerry Jones who’s obsession with winning is more of a hindrance to his team. Edited February 13, 2020 by vikingsrule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman5252 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 6 hours ago, marshpit23 said: Possibly. I don’t see this team doing worse than 10-6, but could see a 12-4 season. IMO, Zimmer is safe and will be here in 2021 and beyond. Like others have mentioned, I think Zim is done when he decides to retire. I could see the team finishing anywhere from 6-10 to 12-4. The O probably gets better. March is going to bring a lot of change to this D though (likely for the worse). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: The ultimate goal of the Vikings organization is to win the Super Bowl. If our owners are of the mindset that the ultimate goal is to maximize profits then I am for them selling the team. Owning an NFL franchise should not be about maximizing profits. If that is what a a rich guy wants to do I would prefer they find a different investment. I do not believe that this coaching staff and front office will win the Super Bowl. They have been unable to get it done and they are not very flexible and are very slow to learn from mistakes that hold the team back. I expect to keep seeing the same thing for as long as the front office and coaching staff are together. It is a terrible waste of some of the things they do well, some of which they do very well. The evidence that exists that I may be wrong and they may be able to bring the team and its fans a Super Bowl victory is the fact that they are good enough to get the team to the playoffs and once they are there anything can happen. Any given Sunday... For me, it is mostly too late for them to prove what is needed this offsesason and in 2020, but if there is one thing that could prove me wrong it is for them to put it all together this year and win the Super Bowl. Short of that, and I am going to continue looking forward to the day that my hope is buoyed by a leadership transition. By now I am starting to wonder whether that will require a transition in ownership as the number of red flags are starting to pile up there. For now, I haven't put down all hope in Wilf as he has done some great things but by this time next year I may no longer think the main problem with the organization is the general manager. That is my opinions on your questions. I expect that some will disagree with my opinion. That is fine. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything; I am just sharing my thoughts with respect to the questions that you asked, which seem like relevant questions. Your opinions are certainly fair, even though, yes, I do disagree with them. Maybe I am jaded, but by far, this is probably the best Vikings' organization from top to bottom that I know of in my lifetime, at the very least since Max Winter was the owner, Jim Finks was the GM and Bud Grant was the coach (of course, since I was still a baby when Finks resigned). Far too often, it's been either a bad owner, bad GM or a bad coach that has kept this team in a funk, whether it be Mike Lynn, The Marine HC, the Gang of Ten, the Sheriff thinking he's a GM, Fran Foley, the Triangle of Authority, Red McCombs, Chilly, Tice, or Leslie. For once in my lifetime, that's not really the case. There is stability...there is competence, there's more talk about improvements that need to happen on the field rather than what's happening off...or they need to go Pecos River or the Nike vision facility to help fix. That stability and competence will pay off. I know it will. Edited February 13, 2020 by swede700 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperborean Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) I think the only thing that will keep him from being extended is his retirement. Spielman can tout his regular season record and the playoff appearances as worthy of the extension. Vikings fans haven't really sniffed a Super Bowl trip for over 10 years and haven't made one in over 40 years, so it's not like expectations are ever very high (I'm ignoring the trip to the NFCCG in Philly because that wasn't close after our first score). Who knows, there's a possibility that we get close this season and make an extension even more of a slam dunk. The NFC is fairly weak right now and the changing of the guard at some of the top QB spots make it iffy. Of course, Chicago could throw a wrench in that by signing a QB that isn't a drooling nincompoop. Edited February 14, 2020 by Hyperborean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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