Is Isaiah Simmons the most versatile player to come out... ever?

[Kirill]

On 2/17/2020 at 4:12 PM, sherm said:

If he gets a creative DC than he can continue to move all around to make him a nightmare for NFL teams. But he could also benefit just playing only 1 position from day 1. I would draft him to play LB and be good with it.

Sounds like a good fit for the Chiefs. I'd trade up and get him. #32, next years 1st, and next years 2nd. Lets make a deal.

[SteelKing728]

On 2/14/2020 at 2:57 PM, BleedTheClock said:

Also, Simmons is going to play SLB in the NFL and that's about it. You won't see him rover around like he did at Clemson. He'll line up outside of the OT and inside of the #2 WR on 99% of his snaps.

He can't play S in the NFL.

So...Anthony Barr 2.0?

[BleedTheClock]

3 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said:

So...Anthony Barr 2.0?

Thats a nice comparison actually. Although Simmons is much more refined as a true linebacker. Barr was raw coming out of college and new to being a true LBer. I think they’ll be similar pros. 

[jimkelly02]

I like the Barr comp but would say I see Simmons being a more effective pass rusher that Barr has been.  Barr really disappoints as a rusher in the nfl IMO especially considering the stats he put up in college.  
Barr’s averages 70tkl, 2.5sack, 4.33pd, .33int.  I feel Barr far under produces, I’m sure people will say he does stuff that isn’t in the stats, but for how high he was drafted and what he’s paid that’s below average production.

i think Simmons will average at least 110tkl, 5sack, 8pd, 2 int in his first 6 years.

the one issues I see with Simmons as a SAM is how does he hold up when run at directly.  Can he hold the edge? Can he stack and shed blocks and make the tackle?  He’s always made plays on the move and in doing so has his athleticism to make plays in space.  But when he’s lined up over the RT or TE and teams run right at him, can he hold up.  Im not saying he can’t, im saying it’s a question he will need to answer.

i’d absolutely love Simmons on my Raiders. He’s my #1 prospect for us by far.  However, when people talk about him being this part time college QB I just shake my head.  Those pff stats that say he was a slot CB 200-something times this year are BS.  He was a Sam who flexed out wide to cover a TE or slot WR.  

[BobbyPhil1781]

16 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

To be fair, Urlacher showed up at the combine 20 pounds heavier than he had ever played in college.  Not saying that's what Simmons would or should do, but Urlacher played at 235-240 in college.

I didn't realize he put on so much afterwards in that short amount of time. That's a very short time to add 20 pounds

[BrownLeader]

6 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

the one issues I see with Simmons as a SAM is how does he hold up when run at directly.  Can he hold the edge? Can he stack and shed blocks and make the tackle? 

no

[jimkelly02]

1 hour ago, BrownLeader said:

no

I absolutely love your in-depth analysis.  
seriously, I don’t Think it’s as simple as “no”, he’s incapable of it.  It’s a matter of how effective can he be at it and can he with time become more capable.

this is one of the reasons I think he’d be overdrafted top 7.  I think 8-12 is his range.

[BrownLeader]

27 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I absolutely love your in-depth analysis.  
seriously, I don’t Think it’s as simple as “no”, he’s incapable of it.  It’s a matter of how effective can he be at it and can he with time become more capable.

this is one of the reasons I think he’d be overdrafted top 7.  I think 8-12 is his range.

No, I agree with you but I'd go even further and say he's a soft player. Great chess piece that's suited for defenses right now but he's not the kind of elite angry athlete that's going to be a physical force like a Ryan Shazier, Patrick Willis or Bob Wagner... . His strengths are coverage, range, and blitzing and he's special there. But he doesn't want to tussle and he can be blocked.

[jimkelly02]

5 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

No, I agree with you but I'd go even further and say he's a soft player. Great chess piece that's suited for defenses right now but he's not the kind of elite angry athlete that's going to be a physical force like a Ryan Shazier, Patrick Willis or Bob Wagner... . His strengths are coverage, range, and blitzing and he's special there. But he doesn't want to tussle and he can be blocked

I really dont disagree with what you said.  Like I said though, I'd love for my Raiders to draft him.  The catch22 with Simmons is when it comes to run defense, he'd be much better off as a WILL who can run side line to side line.  However, his greatest skillset is coverage and that is optimized playing SAM and lining up over TEs.

Since we talked about his weaknesses, I do want to add I think he's got some nice pass rush skills.  He'll never be a physical rusher with a great bull rush, but hes got great speed.

Edited February 24, 2020 by jimkelly02

[Small Town Values]

16 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

No, I agree with you but I'd go even further and say he's a soft player. Great chess piece that's suited for defenses right now but he's not the kind of elite angry athlete that's going to be a physical force like a Ryan Shazier, Patrick Willis or Bob Wagner... . His strengths are coverage, range, and blitzing and he's special there. But he doesn't want to tussle and he can be blocked.

You make it seem like he frequently comes off second best in the collision. I’m yet to see it myself. He’s as polished a tackler as you’re going to get coming out of college. Go back to his H.S. tape where he played both DB & WR - even then his tackling technique was flawless. He can make any tackle in the book, from any angle / position. And, he can most certainly lay the wood if necessary. Shazier shouldn’t be in that list, he didn’t even know how to tackle correctly. That head down blind pilot kamikaze garbage is what got him in the position he’s in now. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Small Town Values

[BrownLeader]

5 hours ago, Small Town Values said:

You make it seem like he frequently comes off second best in the collision. I’m yet to see it myself. He’s as polished a tackler as you’re going to get coming out of college. Go back to his H.S. tape where he played both DB & WR - even then his tackling technique was flawless. He can make any tackle in the book, from any angle / position. And, he can most certainly lay the wood if necessary. Shazier shouldn’t be in that list, he didn’t even know how to tackle correctly. That head down blind pilot kamikaze garbage is what got him in the position he’s in now. 

To be clear, he's a big time prospect with his athleticism and versatility and he's going to blow up Indianapolis this week, so this is basically just nit picking. I mean, imo I think he could even play CB if he really wanted to...but I do think he's a finesse guy atm and needs to be in an attacking scheme to show up vs the run.

In this GA Tech clip he's absolutely stoned by RS Soph RB Jordan Mason on the blitz.

In the next bunch of clips he's just generally pushed around physically. In the OSU clip and one of the GA Tech clips it's by likely undraftable RT/OGs.

Guys are going to get blocked of course, and there are some instances of him lighting guys up in space, but by and large, I see him on the softer side when he's contacted.

Edited February 24, 2020 by BrownLeader

[DirtyDez]

He’s got some pre-stoner Daryl Washington in him.  Probably not the same explosion but a better frame.  

[Small Town Values]

On 2/25/2020 at 9:10 AM, BrownLeader said:

To be clear, he's a big time prospect with his athleticism and versatility and he's going to blow up Indianapolis this week, so this is basically just nit picking. I mean, imo I think he could even play CB if he really wanted to...but I do think he's a finesse guy atm and needs to be in an attacking scheme to show up vs the run.

I really didn't see any major issues in those clips. Clips 2 & 3: He did well to force the RB back inside, he very nearly made the stop inside himself in the 3rd clip. Clip 4: He appears to be doing the same, although he did get briefly tangled up.

The clips where he was clearly bested...

Clip 1: Good low block by the RB. Although, Simmons altered his stride before contact & may have been looking to adjust & bat the ball down when he saw the QB getting ready to throw. He's run through his fair share of RBs before, so a good block is not indicative of a pattern. Clip 5: Definitely was overzealous trying to cut off the outside in the Fiesta Bowl, got caught high, off balance, & was shifted. Made a mistake, he'll learn. Only his second year playing LB after all.    

PS... I don't think he can play CB in the NFL. A guy like Tyreek would run circles around him. However, given the right situation / game - you might be able to utilize him there. He might be a good matchup for DK in certain instances, RZ etc.    

Edited February 26, 2020 by Small Town Values

[BrownLeader]

[RedGold]

Dislike bringing back an old thread.

Love Krill saying he’d trade 2 1st and 1 2nd for a bust.