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Karnage84

Lions shopping Darius Slay

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They are in win now mode and don't need another hole on the roster. Trading him is not going to help us this season.  He's proven, an All Pro CB1, good in the community, checks pretty much every box.  I'm not worried about his lack of production last year, the lack of pass rush seriously hampered everyone's ability to cover.  

I'm thinking 3 years, $42 mil, $24 guaranteed. Paid out as $12, 14, &16 mil. The guaranteed money starts kicking in this year so he gets $6 mil.  I know $16 mil for for a 33 year old CB looks bad, but that will more than likely be top 15-ish CB paydays in another 4 years as the cap climbs, and there will only be $6 mil in dead money if cut. It keeps him here, hopefully the high guaranteed money (the only figure truly worth anything) will satisfy him. 

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8 hours ago, Bishop86 said:

They are in win now mode and don't need another hole on the roster. Trading him is not going to help us this season.  He's proven, an All Pro CB1, good in the community, checks pretty much every box.  I'm not worried about his lack of production last year, the lack of pass rush seriously hampered everyone's ability to cover.  

I'm thinking 3 years, $42 mil, $24 guaranteed. Paid out as $12, 14, &16 mil. The guaranteed money starts kicking in this year so he gets $6 mil.  I know $16 mil for for a 33 year old CB looks bad, but that will more than likely be top 15-ish CB paydays in another 4 years as the cap climbs, and there will only be $6 mil in dead money if cut. It keeps him here, hopefully the high guaranteed money (the only figure truly worth anything) will satisfy him. 

There is NOWAY I would give him that contract. He is a good player but this is a business. Being nice is what got us into the Snacks situation as we should have never given him that extension. It is costing us 5 mil in dead cap space for being nice. 

Trade Slay now while he has value and sign a FA CB to replace him with your 50+ mil in cap space.

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11 hours ago, Bishop86 said:

They are in win now mode and don't need another hole on the roster. Trading him is not going to help us this season.  He's proven, an All Pro CB1, good in the community, checks pretty much every box.  I'm not worried about his lack of production last year, the lack of pass rush seriously hampered everyone's ability to cover.  

I'm thinking 3 years, $42 mil, $24 guaranteed. Paid out as $12, 14, &16 mil. The guaranteed money starts kicking in this year so he gets $6 mil.  I know $16 mil for for a 33 year old CB looks bad, but that will more than likely be top 15-ish CB paydays in another 4 years as the cap climbs, and there will only be $6 mil in dead money if cut. It keeps him here, hopefully the high guaranteed money (the only figure truly worth anything) will satisfy him. 

I'm all for paying Slay on the basis of a) this is a make or break year for us and b) he's still a very good player on a team with a number of other holes. Plus everything you mentioned with the community and all of that. I'm thinking more along the lines of a 2 year extension (2020 + 2). Put most of the guaranteed money on this year so that he's cuttable/tradeable next year. Draft Okudah and let Slay train him up while getting the play out of both guys + AO. 

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I think there's another angle that we should consider.

Byron Jones is a free agent, is two years younger than Slay and they might demand a similar market-setting contract. 

Ask yourself: would you rather have the 29 year old Slay for that big contract, or the 27 year old Jones for that big contract plus a relatively high draft pick(s)?

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On 2/21/2020 at 1:20 PM, BStanRamFan said:

You don't want Gurley. Trust me.

Malcolm Brown I could see. What about a tag and trade of Dante Fowler?  3-4 OLB and still very young. Last year Frank Clark got Seattle a 1st and 2nd round pick. Fowler is that class of player at the same position so trading him for a CB that wasn't going to resign seems fair to me. 

im not saying we want Gurley, i could the lions being the lions and saying they want him instead of Fowler or a pick or something

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On 2/23/2020 at 3:09 PM, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I think there's another angle that we should consider.

Byron Jones is a free agent, is two years younger than Slay and they might demand a similar market-setting contract. 

Ask yourself: would you rather have the 29 year old Slay for that big contract, or the 27 year old Jones for that big contract plus a relatively high draft pick(s)?

Theres no guarantee we get Jones...or any other good CB. Why would a CB want to sign up with the league's worst pass rush in front?

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2 minutes ago, detroitroar said:

Theres no guarantee we get Jones...or any other good CB. Why would a CB want to sign up with the league's worst pass rush in front?

You paid them more than the other guys.... 

Which is a recipe for success.. and by success, I mean winning the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes. 

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3 minutes ago, detroitroar said:

Theres no guarantee we get Jones...or any other good CB. Why would a CB want to sign up with the league's worst pass rush in front?

Because significant pieces are in place, and assets are available, for this team to potentially be very good moving forward.

That, and... money.

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18 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Because significant pieces are in place, and assets are available, for this team to potentially be very good moving forward.

That, and... money.

You take Slay off the team and that first part is rather debatable. 

And yeah. We would probably have to over pay.

I just think that scenario overall is best case kinda stuff. Nothing wrong with that...just pointing out how it could go wrong. Itd be a risk.

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4 hours ago, detroitroar said:

You take Slay off the team and that first part is rather debatable. 

And yeah. We would probably have to over pay.

I just think that scenario overall is best case kinda stuff. Nothing wrong with that...just pointing out how it could go wrong. Itd be a risk.

I'm not sure that a Byron Jones-type views things that way. I would have to assume that, being only 27 and in line for a market-setting contract, he would view his presence on this team as a way to greatly improved a perceived area of weakness.

It's also no secret that, as far as cap space and draft capital, this team is in a great position for next year.

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On 2/23/2020 at 11:50 AM, BZski said:

There is NOWAY I would give him that contract. He is a good player but this is a business. Being nice is what got us into the Snacks situation as we should have never given him that extension. It is costing us 5 mil in dead cap space for being nice. 

Trade Slay now while he has value and sign a FA CB to replace him with your 50+ mil in cap space.

Quin/Patricia are in "win now" mode, short of a developmental 2nd or 3rd round prospect, how does trading Slay help us? Keep in mind we do not currently have a CB2, either. In a worst case scenario, we play hard ball with Slay, keeping him this year(while he skips training camp),  and franchising him for the year after. His back will be against the wall as he ages, but do you really want to have a cornerstone of your franchise be in that position?  If trends continue, 12-16 mil will be an average contract in a few years, and by my model, cutting a 33 year old Pro Bowl CB with $6 mil in dead money won't bat an eye around the league.

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6 hours ago, Bishop86 said:

Quin/Patricia are in "win now" mode, short of a developmental 2nd or 3rd round prospect, how does trading Slay help us? Keep in mind we do not currently have a CB2, either. In a worst case scenario, we play hard ball with Slay, keeping him this year(while he skips training camp),  and franchising him for the year after. His back will be against the wall as he ages, but do you really want to have a cornerstone of your franchise be in that position?  If trends continue, 12-16 mil will be an average contract in a few years, and by my model, cutting a 33 year old Pro Bowl CB with $6 mil in dead money won't bat an eye around the league.

I'm honestly to the point where I think the whole "win now" thing is being way overblown.  I know a lot of people want to see Patricia and Quinn go.  They are not my favorite either.  However, I kind of think that the "compete for the playoffs" comment by Martha is pretty wide open and very subjective.  She didn't say, "Make the playoffs or else".  She stated we needed to be in competition for the playoffs. What exactly does this mean? I don't think this means if we go 8-8 and miss the playoffs Patricia and Quinn are gone.  I think this means, 3-13, 5-12 they are gone.  The closer you get to 500, the better off they are. I think they are safe at 7-9.  So, if Slay is dealt, with everything I just said, I don't see it as a game changer as long as we pick up a db in FA and in the draft.
Where this effects things is with Stafford.  We get rid of Stafford, then you can kiss 7-9 goodbye.  I think if we chose Tua at 3, we won't be trading Stafford this year.  If I'm Quinn, no way do I feel like this team can win 7 games with a rookie qb with all of our holes on defense. But if I can take Tua at 3, Then target BPA with a focus on defense, I'd be very open to it. The big question for me is this, if we trade down to 5 and Tua is still there do you take him? You would have 2 1st rd picks (from #3 trade down) and possibly  2-3 2nd round picks (possibly 1 for trade down from 3, and 1 from Slay), then how much better are we long term?  I think we could be set up nicely in that scenario.

Edited by LionArkie

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From the comments from BQ today I am pretty sure Slay will be traded. Just a gut feeling.

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6 hours ago, Bishop86 said:

Quin/Patricia are in "win now" mode, short of a developmental 2nd or 3rd round prospect, how does trading Slay help us? Keep in mind we do not currently have a CB2, either. In a worst case scenario, we play hard ball with Slay, keeping him this year(while he skips training camp),  and franchising him for the year after. His back will be against the wall as he ages, but do you really want to have a cornerstone of your franchise be in that position?  If trends continue, 12-16 mil will be an average contract in a few years, and by my model, cutting a 33 year old Pro Bowl CB with $6 mil in dead money won't bat an eye around the league.

I think it's important to consider our other options. It's isn't Slay or nothing.

Which of these two options would you prefer:

1. The 29 year old Darius Slay making $16.5M for the next four years.

2. The 27 year old Byron Jones making $16.5M for the next four years plus a first round or high second round 2020 draft pick.

We can lose Slay, get compensation and still not find ourselves depleted at CB.

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2 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I think it's important to consider our other options. It's isn't Slay or nothing.

Which of these two options would you prefer:

1. The 29 year old Darius Slay making $16.5M for the next four years.

2. The 27 year old Byron Jones making $16.5M for the next four years plus a first round or high second round 2020 draft pick.

We can lose Slay, get compensation and still not find ourselves depleted at CB.

Byron Jones would be a HOME RUN get in FA. HE is so good and versatile! He would def be my #1 target in FA. 

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