Damikeeeee Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) Does anyone know if we pull the option, would we be able to possibly get a comp pick? On Floyd Edited March 13, 2020 by Damikeeeee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 45 minutes ago, Damikeeeee said: Does anyone know if we pull the option, would we be able to possibly get a comp pick? On Floyd If he becomes a UFA and signs elsewhere that deal would then become part of the calculations for comp picks. But those calculations also weigh who we sign and for how much vs who we lose and how much they received. Only the NFL knows precisely how that's all computed and they ain't tellin', LOL. So the correct answer is a qualified yes or a maybe or an it all depends. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 1 hour ago, soulman said: If he becomes a UFA and signs elsewhere that deal would then become part of the calculations for comp picks. But those calculations also weigh who we sign and for how much vs who we lose and how much they received. Only the NFL knows precisely how that's all computed and they ain't tellin', LOL. So the correct answer is a qualified yes or a maybe or an it all depends. Yeah, net loss vs. net gain is the only thing everyone is sure about. Value of the comp picks are much more confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Damikeeeee said: Does anyone know if we pull the option, would we be able to possibly get a comp pick? On Floyd Over the Cap said you would. They closed the option loophole for regular contracts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted March 14, 2020 Author Share Posted March 14, 2020 16 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: Was talking about only doing so in obvious passing situations. 3rd and long, 2nd and 20, 2-minute. Essentially valuing him in the pass game over our ILB2. Now that that’s gonna be DT and Roquan that’d be out anyway. Yeah I get where you were going with it and I don't think that it would be a bad idea to at least consider. Use him as sort of situational flex linebacker who could fill in at both spots as an OLB and ILB. Again, I think he does more for this defense than he gets credit for at the OLB spot than the majority does, but I don't believe for a second that he is irreplaceable or anything. So maybe the best common ground would be to see if he could add 10 pounds or so without losing his speed and trying him out at the ILB position. If the FO is going to keep him anyways (which I think they will) knowing that he is not the long-term answer then at least see what you potentially have in him as a depth player. One that could be pretty versatile IF he works out at the iLB position. If I'm Nagy, I would explore this idea and use training camp and joint practices just to see what I have there. Maybe even a few plays in preseason as well. 16 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: What I’m saying is that they can explore potential deals with other players. If they can strike something with the money due Floyd, they can rescind on Floyd and sign the other guy(s) with that money. If they don’t find such a deal or deals they can certainly still keep him. Ah, okay. I misread the interaction between you and @soulman at first. Had a brainfart there so my bad. Gotcha now. That said, who is on the list of UFA's do you think would be a better option that Pace could look at it? Here is a list of some of top players who are available. Jadeveon Clowney = Too expensive and a bit overrated. Dante Fowler = Not much better than Floyd is (if any at all) who would cost more in the open market. Mario Addison = Does not fit the scheme and is 33 years old. Pace and Nagy have made it a point to keep this roster young. Terrell Suggs = Still decent but too old. Kyle Van Noy = A possibility. Shaquil Barrett = L-O-L. Mr. "I benefited greatly from an interior pass rush and the most heavy blitz scheme in the league last year" Bruce Irvin = This would sound good if this was 2015. Markus Golden = Floyd > Golden, at a cheaper price. Bud Dupree = Floyd = Dupree, at a cheaper price. Barkevious Mingo = 5 separate GM's in 7 years have decided that he was clearly a bust, including two of the best talent evaluators in the league (belichick/Carrol). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 14 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: Markus Golden = Floyd > Golden, at a cheaper price. He was a guy I felt we should've pursued last year and was surprised we didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 On 3/12/2020 at 2:18 AM, JustAnotherFan said: The main problem you have with trying to replace Floyd (or any other Edge player) by using the committee approach is that you limit your playbook and expose it at the same time based on what each replacement player bring to the table. If an opposing coach knows X player is good against the run but not good against the pass or covering the flat then that player is more than likely going to be in against plays where the Bears are expecting the run. Conversely, if Y player is bad against the run aand solid in the flats then that player is going to be mostly used on passing downs. What you're touching on is one of the inherent problems of a 3-4. Which therefore also makes it one of the reasons I don't like a 3-4. Getting guys who can do both is really hard. But if your starting OLB can't rush the passer very well you're in trouble. Most 3-4 teams do have to rotate guys on the outside. Also, while Floyd is good in coverage, 3-4s typically rely on more on their ILBs for that. On 3/12/2020 at 2:18 AM, JustAnotherFan said: I strongly disagree with this and the Ravens offense this past season is a perfect example as to why. They ran a heavy set offense that mainly featured 3 TE's and it was something new that the league had not seen since the early 90's, and remember, this a copycat league. The Ravens showed last season that teams need two edge players who can do both; rush the passer AND play containment in zone coverage on a TE over the top and RB's in the flats. If not, then you end up getting burned. That's only true if you insist on countering that offense with a fairly standard 3-4. Most teams won't do that. They'll do a 4-3 with some kind of zone, or use three safeties in a hybrid 4-3/Nickel sort of deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted March 15, 2020 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 Going to update the OP tonight since now we know the cap space will be 198.2M. I'll also add DT and RRH -- I'm interested in seeing what the cap space potentially looks like right now. Danny Trevathan's estimated contract structure ContractBase salary = 3 years/21.8M (24M with incentives--pro bowl?) Total guaranteed = 14M (58.3% of the total contract guaranteed) Signing bonus = 8.4M (60% of total money guaranteed) Year 1: 2.8M Year 2: 2.8M Year 3: 2.8M 5.6M guaranteed spread out in the first 2 seasons. Year 1: 750k Year 2: 4.85M Workout bonus / other incentives = 450k (150k each year) Cap hits / Dead-cap / Savings if released Year 1: $3.9M / $14.0M / -$10.1M Year 2: $9.4M / $10.5M / -$1.05M Year 3: $10.7M / $2.80M / +$7.90M: I know I'm only speculating here, but this is would be a good deal fellas. Only 3.9 against the cap this year. It is essentially a 2 year deal with outs in 2022 that would save 7.9M in cap space. Hell, if it really comes down to it and he plays absolutely terrible, we could even release him in 2021 and would still only take a 1M dollar hit. This deal would be close to what Demario Davis received in 2018. Davis signed a 3 year/24M with 16M guaranteed and 9.2M signing bonus. Pace could also add 1 voidable year to the contract and prorate the signing bonus. This would mean the 8.4M signing bonus would be spread out among 4 years instead of 3 (2.1M per year). Pace loves to utilize the voidable years as well. In the least 2 years he added 1 year to Long's contract, added 2 years to Leno's, and 2 years to Fuller's. The negatives to this is that we would only save 5.8M in cap space if DT is released in 2022, and would take a 2.5M hit if released in 2021. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted March 15, 2020 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 (edited) On 3/14/2020 at 3:01 AM, soulman said: He was a guy I felt we should've pursued last year and was surprised we didn't. IMO he would be a downgrade. AZ and I were talkign about him in another thread and I stated why I think that. (i'll see if I can find the post) 7 hours ago, Heinz D. said: What you're touching on is one of the inherent problems of a 3-4. Which therefore also makes it one of the reasons I don't like a 3-4. Getting guys who can do both is really hard. But if your starting OLB can't rush the passer very well you're in trouble. Most 3-4 teams do have to rotate guys on the outside. Also, while Floyd is good in coverage, 3-4s typically rely on more on their ILBs for that. I don't really mind either scheme because both of them can work well when executed with the right personnel. But yeah, there's def negatives and positives to both schemes. 7 hours ago, Heinz D. said: That's only true if you insist on countering that offense with a fairly standard 3-4. Most teams won't do that. They'll do a 4-3 with some kind of zone, or use three safeties in a hybrid 4-3/Nickel sort of deal. Oh no doubt. But almost every team uses a hybrid at some point so you still need versatility on the edge, imo. The days of teams running out of a base formation 100% of the time is long gone. But that's also dependent on the schedule too though and which defenses an offense is going to play against in a given year (4-3 or 3-4). The ravens offense played 10 games last season against primarily 4-3 defenses and they just shredded the LB's(SLBs, WLBs, MLBs) and defensive ends who could not contain them. On a separate note, it'll be interesting to see how sustainable the Ravens offense will be moving forward. Is it something that can work year in, year out. Or will it just turn out to be a case of one offense (Ravens) using a scheme that defenses were not prepared face in a single year and dies out when defenses adjust. Edited March 15, 2020 by JustAnotherFan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 32 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: On a separate note, it'll be interesting to see how sustainable the Ravens offense will be moving forward. Is it something that can work year in, year out. Or will it just turn out to be a case of one offense (Ravens) using a scheme that defenses were not prepared face in a single year and dies out when defenses adjust. That's a good point. There will be adjustments by opposing teams immediately. It's also--on it's own--sort of a specific kind of package. Injuries could easily disrupt their plans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) Three big changes in the new CBA that effect the Bears salary cap this year. 1) The minimum salaries will raise by 90-100k. 2) Two minimum salary players is added as per the new CBA -- 53 active players increased to 55 in the offseason. 3) Raises were given to certain players based on accrued seasons. The league minimum for 2020 is $510,000. This means that those players listed in the OP who were currently making $510,000 all received a raise of 90-100K. For sake of this thread I increased them to 95k as a middle ground for now. But for other players who received 90k raises based on accrued seasons I did add them in. A good read to better understand the some of the recent changes: https://overthecap.com/new-cba-approved-cap-set-at-198-2-million/ Quote The biggest change in my opinion is that minimum salaries will raise now by either $90,000 or $100,000 for 2020. This is a massive shift in salary which should mean that teams will now use up an extra $3 to $3.5 million in cap space and their budget for players already under contract. So for teams that are flush with cap room like the Dolphins it does not matter but for teams like the Jaguars operating close to the salary cap it’s a big hit. For teams that often have tighter budgets than most in the NFL (think Colts and Texans) this is an added expense that will likely take money away from use in free agency even if the cap space is not a concern for them. For us at OTC this is a big change as well to many deals so we will be doing our best to reflect these changes shortly. There may be some bumps along the way but we will do our best to make the necessary corrections where I realize that I may have messed up a number. Similarly rosters will now expand in size for the practice squad and active rosters which are also going to mean added costs for teams. Two minimum salary players in the move from 53 to 55 will be an added $1.2M to a teams budget. PS salaries and squad size also increased but that will be a lesser number. It is important to note that teams wont be able to do the PS raises we often see so that should create a few bucks for some teams. The new CBA will bring back the option of the post June 1 cut designation. So for teams like the Jets that have made it clear that they are releasing Trumaine Johnson but have not done so officially this was probably the reason for the delay. Players like Johnson can now be designated a post June 1 on the first day of the league year to open up millions of dollars in cap room in June for signing rookies. We will bring back our June 1 options to the cap pages and calculators to reflect the ability to do this. What does all of this mean for the Bears? List of Bears players who received a 90k raise; Mitchell Trubisky Devante Bond Kentrell Brice Corey Levin Eric Saubert Joel Iyiegbuniwe Bilal Nichols Javon Wims Kevin Toliver Eddy Piniero Riley Ridley Duke Shelley Xavier Crawford Josh Woods Abdullah Anderson Alex Bars Jesper Horsted Ryan Nall James Vaughters List of players (and draft picks) who received a 95k raise; Pick #43 Pick #50 Pick #144 Tre Roberson Pick #163 Pick #196 Pick #200 Pick #226 Pick #233 Dino Boyd Darion Clark Reggie Davis Stephen Denmark Thomas Ives Michael Joseph Sam Mustipher Dax Raymond Alex Wesley This totals 3.38M in changes. Note: Not all of this 3.38M count against the cap. As of right now only 2.81M of that would count against it. Adding 2 additional active players to the roster costs the Bears $1.21M. Edited March 16, 2020 by JustAnotherFan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: Three big changes in the new CBA that effect the Bears salary cap this year. 1) The minimum salaries will raise by 90-100k. 2) Two minimum salary players is added as per the new CBA -- 53 active players increased to 55 in the offseason. 3) Raises were given to certain players based on accrued seasons. The league minimum for 2020 is $510,000. This means that those players listed in the OP who were currently making $510,000 all received a raise of 90-100K. For sake of this thread I increased them to 95k as a middle ground for now. But for other players who received 90k raises based on accrued seasons I did add them in. A good read to better understand the some of the recent changes: https://overthecap.com/new-cba-approved-cap-set-at-198-2-million/ What does all of this mean for the Bears? List of Bears players who received a 90k raise; Mitchell Trubisky Devante Bond Kentrell Brice Corey Levin Eric Saubert Joel Iyiegbuniwe Bilal Nichols Javon Wims Kevin Toliver Eddy Piniero Riley Ridley Duke Shelley Xavier Crawford Josh Woods Abdullah Anderson Alex Bars Jesper Horsted Ryan Nall James Vaughters List of players (and draft picks) who received a 95k raise; Pick #43 Pick #50 Pick #144 Tre Roberson Pick #163 Pick #196 Pick #200 Pick #226 Pick #233 Dino Boyd Darion Clark Reggie Davis Stephen Denmark Thomas Ives Michael Joseph Sam Mustipher Dax Raymond Alex Wesley This totals 3.38M in changes. Note: Not all of this 3.38M count against the cap. As of right now only 2.81M of that would count against it. Adding 2 additional active players to the roster costs the Bears $1.21M. Why would it impact Mitch’s salary? He’s clearly not making the minimum base salary in 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: Why would it impact Mitch’s salary? He’s clearly not making the minimum base salary in 2020. Because as a part of the new CBA deal, all players working under rookie contracts would receive a raise based on accrued seasons. Mitch was set to make $735,000 in base salary before the new deal (3 accrued seasons). Now he will make 825k. https://insidefootball.com/nfl-proposed-minimum-salary-table/ Edited March 16, 2020 by JustAnotherFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: Because as a part of the new CBA deal, all players working under rookie contracts would receive a raise based on accrued seasons. Mitch was set to make $735,000 in base salary before the new deal (3 accrued seasons). Now he will make 825k. https://insidefootball.com/nfl-proposed-minimum-salary-table/ I didn’t realize most of his 2020 pay was in a roster bonus. Just assumed it was all base and prorated signing bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: I didn’t realize most of his 2020 pay was in a roster bonus. Just assumed it was all base and prorated signing bonus. The good thing is. For those few people on the internet who have been foolishly suggesting that we cut Mitch can now point to the fact that it would save us a whole 90k instead breaking even lol. Since I can't edit the OP, here is a link to my spreadsheet that I work off of that includes roster details. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WKD0p_VnDfg4pKSlZym6oLbCDU8PHQTcBpsLs3A5CqA/edit?usp=sharing here is what the Bears cap space looks like, as of now. Total Salary cap: $198,200,000Top 51 Cap Hit: -$194,552,013Top 55 Cap Hit: - $196,999,022Dead-Cap: -$6,902,4032019 Rollover: $16,556,739Offseason money needed: -$2,000,000 Current Salary cap = $11,302,323Off-season Salary cap = $8,855,314 EDITED FOR REVISION: Forgot to redo draft picks. ======================== List of top 18 players who could be released before June 1st that would save money Leonard Floyd = 13.2M Allen Robinson = 13M Akeim Hicks = 8.8M Cordelle Patterson = 4.75M Charles Leno = 2.92M Tarik Cohen = 2.14M Eddie Goldman = 1.95M Pat O'Donnell = 1.75M Ben Braunecker = 1.47M Adam Shaheen = 1.27M Demetrius Harris = 1.15M Trey Burton = 1.05M Devonte Bond = 825k Kentrell Brice = 825k Corey Levin = 825k Eric Saubert = 825k Kevin Toliver = 750k Eddie Pinero = 750k Edited March 16, 2020 by JustAnotherFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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