The root of the problems run deep!

[Raves]

Was supposed to be WhoDat's first post, mseed it up.

[whodatworm23]

Issues with this team go far deeper than what appears...

 

Ownership:

Benson is like what... 90? He was forced to shell out a butt load of IOU's to his family fund to keep Ritas hands off his sports teams and make her disappear. His wife is set up now as successor and one has to believe Benson (nearing the end) has been pushing for quick fixes (which NEVER work in sports) from his 2 sports franchises to have one more day in the ?. This has caused alot of turmoil within the organization and instability.

 

Mangement:

The obvious failure to provide that last moment in the ? to Benson now has a once tight realtionship between Loomis and Payton now strained. Each pitting blame on the other behind closed doors. Its no wonder why trade rumors have surrounded Payton for the last couple years and i have a sneeky suspision that had Loomis been able to make the call himself and not have it approved by Benson, Payton would have been traded 2 years ago. However hes still the GM and reguardless if Payton was requesting it, Loomis allowed players to be signed to contracts that has crippled our salary cap in a way never before seen in the NFL.

 

Scouting Dept:

Over the last 5 years this area of the franchise has been terrible. Yes it has somewhat improved over the last 2 but not as good as some on here believe it to be. This dept has also seen its fair share of turnover and is basically divided into 2 factions...

 

1. Loomis and Fontonet

Vs

2. Payton and Ireland

 

This cannot continue... Far to many cooks in the kitchen!!!

 

Coaching:

Lord, where to begin?

 

Sean Payton has failed miserably over the last 4-5 years in New Orleans and the one thing he has left to hang his hat on is his consistant top 5 offense. However ive been on record as saying that, that offense over that time has been fools gold. Statistics compiled from consistantly trailing in shootouts / blowouts do to horrific defensive play has padded those stats for Payton and Brees benifit for quite some time. Paytons offense has become a predictable illusion, one in which the NFL has caught up to. 

 

Defensivly we all know its been a disaster and continues to be... Once again thats on Payton. Hes the HC not the OC. Last year Loomis finally stepped in and fired much of Paytons staff uet that fielded little positive return. The fact is that this team has never ever had a true identity on defense under the Payton regime and its never been seen as a piorioty reguardless how much redaric Payton spews.

 

Players:

Lets start with Brees... HOF player, 38 years old and has been fighiting diminishing arm strenghth for last 3 years. NFL defenses are now fully aware of Brees limitations on thr deep ball and it allows them to defend the Saints offense in a whole new way. Brandin Cooks eluded to this as part of the reason he was frustrated in NOLA. This is also why thr Saints have quietly been trying despertly to beef up their running game over the last few years.

 

Fact is that Brees is as much to blame in this as anyone. Hes a 25 million dollar per year game manager at thia point on a team that has very little depth and talent. 

 

The best playwr on this franchise is DE Cam Jordan and i truly feel sorry for the guy. Hes in thr prime of his career and he plays his heart out every play. Sadly hes been burdened with such a happless situation around him that i wouldnt be suprised if he was thr next former 1st round pick to start requesting a ticket out of here (you can bet Ingram is about to).

 

The state of this depth chart is just sad... Yes there are some quality players on it but very few stars, no depth and more overated veterans than one team needs.

 

This disaster that is what we have seen over the 1st 2 games didnt just happen. This is an accumulation of ineptitude for over 5 years running finally coming to a head in a season everyone knew was the measuring stick for this franchise. They put all their eggs in this basket and now the panic is about to start.

 

There is only one way to rectify what has become a major S**T SHOW in New Orleans... ? it down and start over!!!

 

 

WHODAT

[Raves]

I think this is the best common ground we can reach between the two sides.

 

Sean Payton needs to go.  This for sure needs to happen.

Loomis based on his track record with picks before Payton got full control, his ability to manipulate salary numbers, and the fact that he's so ingrained in the Benson Organization, needs at least the opportunity to bring in a new head coach and see how he can work with him to change the team again.  This is at most 2 years trial period where at the end if things don't improve with picks/signings then he goes strictly to a Football Operations position and a new GM gets signed, even give Peyton Manning a shot IMO as his mind for football is pretty amazing.

Our defense is crap, but there are definitely players who either standout or have shown flashes that we can look to build around them going forward with proper management.  Those players are Jordan, Lattimore, Rankins, Bell, Williams, Vacarro, and Anzalone.  Some others have potential but this staff hasn't gotten it out of them yet so I'm not putting them into that group.

 

Our offense is bad right now.  Part of that definitely has to do with our two starting OTs, one that's top 3 and the other that's top 10 at their positions are out.  Peat is a good guy to have to push out for a few missing games, but he's shown to be best at OG, and before people complain that an OG at #13 isn't worth the pick, then you haven't been watching the NFL as of late, as an OG is definitely worth the #13 pick in today's NFL.  Ramzy showed flashes at LT and was ok at RT, but he was a raw prospect with top 5 potential if he had more time to develop in college, he didn't so he's going to be getting his learning curve accelerated in the NFL.  He can definitely develop into a top 5 OT, at either side, but he's probably a year away from being able to really put it together.  We have two very good RBs that will work well together regardless of the offense after Payton in Ingram and Kamara.  Peterson will be gone, he's came in knowing the RBBC situation and now is disgruntled that he's not getting more touches and whether it's warranted or not, Payton will just sit him for it.  I think we could definitely get something back in trade for Peterson, even if it's a midround pick, and I think we should look to find a trade for him right now as well.  I think the Patriots would love to have someone of Peterson's caliber, maybe Arizona even.  Our WRs are a solid group, when they are all there.  Thomas is a LEGIT #1 WR and better overall than Cooks, regardless of what some might say, and the others are the type of guys that can work for a young QB next year.  If we could I would trade Brees this year to a team that could compete with a better QB.  Indy comes to mind personally and since he's on a 1 year deal that means that they can give Luck all the time he needs to recover this year to come back 100% next year as no team in the AFC South looks great.

 

So overall, we have pieces that are in place ready for our next HC, on both sides of the ball, and a rebuild could happen faster than expected with the right coach.  It's just a matter of finding that right coach and putting the staff around them.

[whodatworm23]

I completely agree and ill thrown another peice of the puzzle in their as well. 2018 is the year to move on from Brees if your going to do it...

 

Josh Allen

Sam Darnold 

Josh Rosen

Mason Randolph

Lamar Jackson

Baker Mayfield

 

All likley to enter the draft.

 

 

Kirk Cousins

Jimmy Garollapo 

AJ McCarron

 

All likley to hit free agency

 

 

We might never see another Drew Brees but thier are options in 2018 to move past him and begin a rebuild as he moves on and chases that last ring.

[Mid Iowa]

There are lots of really good points by both of you here. Sad that we're having this conversation.

I truly think that Ramey and Peat would be turning heads right now if they had the two pro bowlers that are on the bench right now. They are doing pretty darn good considering the situation they are in. I just have to think it would be a great situation if that line had all of their players.

As much as I don't ever want to let go of Brees, the old adage in football is better to let them go a year or two to early rather than a year or two too late.

Of course, that would cause major scrutiny. Well, look what we're dealing with now. At least if we ditched Brees we would have an excuse to be tanking constantly. He is the only reason Peyton still has a job, IMO.

Can you imagine Brees' Hall of Fame speech? "I wish we would have had a defense, I would be wearing at least three of Tom Brady's rings, so, thanks, Coach Payton. At least I have a bunch of worthless records instead of a fist full of  pesky million-dollar rings and a bunch of stupid trophies in an expensive case that I would have had to remodel my house so they would fit".

[tyler735]

1 hour ago, whodatworm23 said:

I completely agree and ill thrown another peice of the puzzle in their as well. 2018 is the year to move on from Brees if your going to do it...

 

Josh Allen

Sam Darnold 

Josh Rosen

Mason Randolph

Lamar Jackson

Baker Mayfield

 

All likley to enter the draft.

 

 

Kirk Cousins

Jimmy Garollapo 

AJ McCarron

 

All likley to hit free agency

 

 

We might never see another Drew Brees but thier are options in 2018 to move past him and begin a rebuild as he moves on and chases that last ring.

At this point, I completely would be for spending our 1st round pick on a QB of the future in 2018. However the only thing that could change this is if we catch fire in the coming weeks and turn it around once we get some of our important guys back (Armstead, Strief, Snead, Breaux, etc.), which isn't out of the realm of possibility. We had a really tough 2 game stretch to start the season against the Vikings, and Patriots. I'm not ready to write off the season yet, but am certainly discouraged at this point. If we miss the playoffs this year, it is time to start planning for the future and get one of those big name QB's coming out this year.

 

[Mid Iowa]

41 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

At this point, I completely would be for spending our 1st round pick on a QB of the future in 2018. However the only thing that could change this is if we catch fire in the coming weeks and turn it around once we get some of our important guys back (Armstead, Strief, Snead, Breaux, etc.), which isn't out of the realm of possibility. We had a really tough 2 game stretch to start the season against the Vikings, and Patriots. I'm not ready to write off the season yet, but am certainly discouraged at this point. If we miss the playoffs this year, it is time to start planning for the future and get one of those big name QB's coming out this year.

I actually think that even if we do catch fire, it's not a bad idea to have a guy train for a year or two (like Rogers, Brady, Steve Young etc...) under Brees, then turn him/her loose.

You guys know that if we're having the talk, the brass is having the talk. Oh, to be a fly on the wall.

[tyler735]

11 minutes ago, Mid Iowa said:

I actually think that even if we do catch fire, it's not a bad idea to have a guy train for a year or two (like Rogers, Brady, Steve Young etc...) under Brees, then turn him/her loose.

You guys know that if we're having the talk, the brass is having the talk. Oh, to be a fly on the wall.

My thought process is that if we catch fire and make it to the playoffs, we have potentially a couple more seasons with this current roster build to make a super bowl run. In this scenario, I'd invest the early draft picks to continue to build likely on the Defensive side of the ball and hope we could make one last super bowl run. If we miss the playoffs it's time to start looking for that QB of the future. Sure in the first scenario if one of those 1st round talents falls to us in the 2nd and we feel he has potential to be a QB of the future you can't pass that up, which isn't unheard of with guys like Drew Brees/Derek Carr slipping for whatever reasons to the 2nd rounds of their drafts.

I think this 3rd game against Carolina will be the most telling of the 3 on how our season is going to play out. By now most of our roster kinks should be worked out with transitions to new players. Playing against an easier opponent. Yes I firmly believe that the Patriots and Vikings have legit talent to go far this season. Watching the Panthers the past 2 weeks they haven't been all that great (Big McCaffrey fan so I've been watching them as much as I can). If we can hit the bye week 2-2 I'd say it's a decent enough start considering everything. Obviously that is a big if at this point.

[Raves]

4 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

My thought process is that if we catch fire and make it to the playoffs, we have potentially a couple more seasons with this current roster build to make a super bowl run. In this scenario, I'd invest the early draft picks to continue to build likely on the Defensive side of the ball and hope we could make one last super bowl run. If we miss the playoffs it's time to start looking for that QB of the future. Sure in the first scenario if one of those 1st round talents falls to us in the 2nd and we feel he has potential to be a QB of the future you can't pass that up, which isn't unheard of with guys like Drew Brees/Derek Carr slipping for whatever reasons to the 2nd rounds of their drafts.

I think this 3rd game against Carolina will be the most telling of the 3 on how our season is going to play out. By now most of our roster kinks should be worked out with transitions to new players. Playing against an easier opponent. Yes I firmly believe that the Patriots and Vikings have legit talent to go far this season. Watching the Panthers the past 2 weeks they haven't been all that great (Big McCaffrey fan so I've been watching them as much as I can). If we can hit the bye week 2-2 I'd say it's a decent enough start considering everything. Obviously that is a big if at this point.

If one of those 1st round talents fall to us in the 1st I say we take it even if we make the playoffs.  Especially if it's a guy like Rosen, I saw his game this weekend and he looked really good, a few mistakes but he has the arm and ability to make every throw.

[NS922]

14 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

1. My thought process is that if we catch fire and make it to the playoffs, 2. we have potentially a couple more seasons with this current roster build to make a super bowl run.

1. We won't

2. We've been trying for this mythological "super bowl run" the past few years and it hasn't worked. It's not going to happen with this roster or with this coaching staff.

[tyler735]

Just now, NS922 said:

1. We won't

2. We've been trying for this mythological "super bowl run" the past few years and it hasn't worked. It's not going to happen with this roster or with this coaching staff.

1. Possibly. That's why we play the season

2. Possibly. It's week 2 let's see what happens with a very different roster from the past several years. 

[SWATcha]

2 minutes ago, NS922 said:

1. We won't

2. We've been trying for this mythological "super bowl run" the past few years and it hasn't worked. It's not going to happen with this roster or with this coaching staff.

Hate to pile on, but I agree. Saints aren't making any playoff runs or Super Bowl appearances when the defense continually sets new records for worst defense to ever play in the NFL.

[DjRay1985]

I think this regime of Benson, Loomis, Payton, and Brees is so embedded with in the Saints and New Orleans community, that although inevitably ending at some point, I see this thing riding out for one more season even if it does fail.

For some reason I see the team showing promise towards the last half of the of the season when the young defense grows up, gets healthy (Breaux) and the Saints get healthy in places they need. It will probably be a ripple effect where Mark Ingram will start benefit from Adrian Peterson, Kamara will get more comfortable, and Peterson will know his role and Ingram will cement himself as the go to RB. As far as the WRs, its all about time. When Snead comes back, he will give defenders more things to worry about, and yes, for me his presence on the field is bigger than EDIT (one guy may say LOL). I am not worried about our OL because Ramzy will learn, and we will get our starters back. The defense is going through growing pains, and fact of the matter is, our Def can only go up. Hopefully they dumb things down on def too, its too much going on IMO, and too many players playing out of position.

From there they will give Peyton another shot. I KNOW, I KNOW lol, but this looks like one of those deals. Again....

[whodatworm23]

http://amp.usatoday.com/story/105736976/

 

Its a shame we have to count on outside media to point out whats really going on here in NOLA... Our local media is so scared of Paytons wrath that they will never dare write something like this and if they did Benson would use his power in the city to have them shipped out. Oh well at least somebody out there is pointing out the obvious!

[BossierWhoDat]

2 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

http://amp.usatoday.com/story/105736976/

 

Its a shame we have to count on outside media to point out whats really going on here in NOLA... Our local media is so scared of Paytons wrath that they will never dare write something like this and if they did Benson would use his power in the city to have them shipped out. Oh well at least somebody out there is pointing out the obvious!

Ahhhh, I"m stuck in an endless loop!!!