Would you retain Byron Jones for $16m per?

[WizardHawk]

1 hour ago, DaBoys said:

No he does not, but I would at least like to see him in a different defensive scheme. I'll look up the rankings for the past few years here in a minute but right now I feel like we have been bottom of the league to below average in interceptions for the last decade or so as a team. I think we have been running the same non blitzing, straight forward, line up and play defense since '13. 

 

I've seen him attempt a swat away when other CBs might go for the pick(if they could get in his position) to many times for me to ever think Byron will ever be a ball hawking 5 to 7 interceptions a year guy.

 

But I'd like to think a different scheme with more disguise and blitzing could see him luck into 2 or 3 a year.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if he goes to a new team and does just that.

There have been a handful of  guys to come and go under old regime, none of them got many picks here. They move to different team and presto. Church had 5 in 7 yrs with Dallas. Goes to Jags and gets 5 in 27 games. Carr did basically the same, albeit after a solid start here. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by WizardHawk

[matt79511]

Some salient points on Mina Kimes’ latest podcast on this subject

”Their [Dallas’] secondary is a nightmare. It’s so bad.” - Kimes

“So many teams are carrying $30M over. I just think that getting good value is overrated because it’s harder to find good players.” - Gregg Rosenthal

I suspect there’s some significant overlap between people who judge CBs by their INT goals and people who think women are summarily disqualified from discussing football, so whatever. Anyway, let’s all cheer on our $5.5B franchise for their genius approach of refusing to spend up to the cap on principle.

[WizardHawk]

7 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

Some salient points on Mina Kimes’ latest podcast on this subject

”Their [Dallas’] secondary is a nightmare. It’s so bad.” - Kimes

“So many teams are carrying $30M over. I just think that getting good value is overrated because it’s harder to find good players.” - Gregg Rosenthal

I suspect there’s some significant overlap between people who judge CBs by their INT goals and people who think women are summarily disqualified from discussing football, so whatever. Anyway, let’s all cheer on our $5.5B franchise for their genius approach of refusing to spend up to the cap on principle.

#FansofOneStupidTeam

[matt79511]

3 minutes ago, WizardHawk said:

#FansofOneStupidTeam

I’m giving the FO this year to prove me wrong. Maybe we were rolling over all this cap to blow when Garrett was finally gone, didn’t want to mortgage our future with him in charge. Maybe.

If we sit on 8 figures one more time and don’t finish at or near the top in real cash spent? I will hear no more arguments that this team values winning over profits.

Edited March 4, 2020 by matt79511

[Matts4313]

39 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

I’m giving the FO this year to prove me wrong. Maybe we were rolling over all this cap to blow when Garrett was finally gone, didn’t want to mortgage our future with him in charge. Maybe.

If we sit on 8 figures one more time and don’t finish at or near the top in real cash spent? I will hear no more arguments that this team values winning over profits.

As long as we are 90%+ on cap spending, you really wont have a solid case against the team. Which we have been every year with few exceptions in the past 25 years.

[matt79511]

8 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

As long as we are 90%+ on cap spending, you really wont have a solid case against the team. Which we have been every year with few exceptions in the past 25 years.

Those few exceptions being the last few years

89% over four years is the floor, so 90 really shouldn’t be acceptable for the team lapping the field in revenue. The teams that were actually trying to win the last few years went down to their last couple mil or less while we sat on $20M in a year we were “all in.” That just doesn’t pass the smell test. Having that money earmarked for future in-house extensions doesn’t constitute anything but complacency

[DaBoys]

19 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

Those few exceptions being the last few years

89% over four years is the floor, so 90 really shouldn’t be acceptable for the team lapping the field in revenue. The teams that were actually trying to win the last few years went down to their last couple mil or less while we sat on $20M in a year we were “all in.” That just doesn’t pass the smell test. Having that money earmarked for future in-house extensions doesn’t constitute anything but complacency

And then not using it for in house extensions...

[Matts4313]

11 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

Those few exceptions being the last few years

89% over four years is the floor, so 90 really shouldn’t be acceptable for the team lapping the field in revenue. The teams that were actually trying to win the last few years went down to their last couple mil or less while we sat on $20M in a year we were “all in.” That just doesn’t pass the smell test. Having that money earmarked for future in-house extensions doesn’t constitute anything but complacency

I really do think they thought that money was going to Dak. We negotiated all the way up until week 3, so we clearly thought that money would be spent. 

[Matts4313]

7/143 = 95%

11/155 = 93%

11/167 = 94%

17/177 = 90%

27/188 = 86%

Again, presuming they thought they could get Dak done in 2019; I dont see any problem with this. Also, the cap floor is a bit of a myth. There is no real punishment besides "spend more money". 

[matt79511]

24 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

I really do think they thought that money was going to Dak. We negotiated all the way up until week 3, so we clearly thought that money would be spent. 

But a prorated SB would still only eat up $8-10M of that, and an Amari extension probably would've lowered his number...

 

It's been reported by numerous outlets now that our final offer to Dak was $33M/yr with $90M GTD- so comparable to Wentz and Goff by AAV but trailing them significantly in guarantees. I just don't get that, if the goal is to win now. Why not give him a deal that guarantees he's the QB for the next 4-5 years, while minimizing his '19-'21 hits, instead of seemingly wanting to do the opposite (inflating his early numbers so that we can get out after 2-3 years)? I see three possible explanations.

1. They don't actually think he's "the guy" (this I don't buy but it's plausible)

2. Winning negotiations is more important than willing titles

3. Stephen just doesn't know what he's doing

 

It may be mostly the third, but 2 and 3 go hand in hand- it's irrefutable that this team has become more conservative under SJ, arguable that it has done so to a fault. I think taking a macro look here, by proudly stating that we want to build from within, being a Dallas Cowboy is a privilege and not a right, yadda yadda... we give all the leverage to our players and their agents in negotiations. Because they know they're not competing for that money with anyone outside the organization.

[canadaluvsdallas]

 

[WizardHawk]

18 minutes ago, canadaluvsdallas said:

 

I'm thinking removing Marinelli and his defensive scheme probably remedied better than 75% of the INT issue for Dallas' defense.  Since 2015 it's been really bad, but this is a longer standing problem than that. 

Over the duration of the Kiffin/Marinelli Era Dallas finished ... 6th, 19th, 31st, 17th,12th, 31st, 26th, 25th, 27th,  and 30th in opponent INT/gm. There was extensive player turnover in the secondary during that time span....yet nothing changed. Jones lack of INTs, everyone's lack of INTs....isn't so much a player problem as it was a scheme problem. 

Putting CJ Henderson in that situation wouldn't have led to different results.....putting our current group in a new situation probably improves the numbers.  

I mean to say, it's bizarre that Xavier Woods and his 14 college picks,  Jones (8), Lewis (6), Chido (3), Morris Claiborne (11), Frazier (5), and Church (9) all forgot how to make a play on the ball once they got to Dallas. 

[canadaluvsdallas]

59 minutes ago, WizardHawk said:

I'm thinking removing Marinelli and his defensive scheme probably remedied better than 75% of the INT issue for Dallas' defense.  Since 2015 it's been really bad, but this is a longer standing problem than that. 

Over the duration of the Kiffin/Marinelli Era Dallas finished ... 6th, 19th, 31st, 17th,12th, 31st, 26th, 25th, 27th,  and 30th in opponent INT/gm. There was extensive player turnover in the secondary during that time span....yet nothing changed. Jones lack of INTs, everyone's lack of INTs....isn't so much a player problem as it was a scheme problem. 

Putting CJ Henderson in that situation wouldn't have led to different results.....putting our current group in a new situation probably improves the numbers.  

I mean to say, it's bizarre that Xavier Woods and his 14 college picks,  Jones (8), Lewis (6), Chido (3), Morris Claiborne (11), Frazier (5), and Church (9) all forgot how to make a play on the ball once they got to Dallas. 

Some teams/units are led usually by one elite player. If Byron Jones who is the leader of our secondary literally never gets picks what kind of message does that send to the DB room?

We always build through the draft anyways. It's nothing we haven't been doing as usual. 

You can remake a solid DB group in 2 off-seasons if you nail your picks right.

Edited March 5, 2020 by canadaluvsdallas

[Matts4313]

1 hour ago, WizardHawk said:

I'm thinking removing Marinelli and his defensive scheme probably remedied better than 75% of the INT issue for Dallas' defense.  Since 2015 it's been really bad, but this is a longer standing problem than that. 

Over the duration of the Kiffin/Marinelli Era Dallas finished ... 6th, 19th, 31st, 17th,12th, 31st, 26th, 25th, 27th,  and 30th in opponent INT/gm. There was extensive player turnover in the secondary during that time span....yet nothing changed. Jones lack of INTs, everyone's lack of INTs....isn't so much a player problem as it was a scheme problem. 

Putting CJ Henderson in that situation wouldn't have led to different results.....putting our current group in a new situation probably improves the numbers.  

I mean to say, it's bizarre that Xavier Woods and his 14 college picks,  Jones (8), Lewis (6), Chido (3), Morris Claiborne (11), Frazier (5), and Church (9) all forgot how to make a play on the ball once they got to Dallas. 

How did the Bears do with Rod in the INT department? 

[canadaluvsdallas]

CJ Henderson isn't a bad pick up.

He's got CB1 potential. His combine workout was smooth. Reminded me of patrick petersons.