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Early Offseason “Pre Free-Agency” Mock

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42 minutes ago, Dome said:

Mayock spent 5 minutes before the announcement of the pick talking about Lamar Jackson to the Saints.... I was certain that’s what the pick was, so was mayock 

 

i still remember how disappointed I was 

Agreed.  I thought Jackson was an underrated passer in college and with someone like Payton coaching him could've really developed into more than just a mobile QB, granted him being a mobile QB only is still working out so far.

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5 hours ago, Raves said:

Pretty sure Mahomes and Watson went before their picks, though Lamar could've been drafted over Davenport, also who I 100% expected them to draft.

Watson went right after our pick at 12 (we were 11) and Chiefs traded up right before us at 10 with buffalo for Mahomes. Payton would say latter in that Mahomes was the highest graded QB hes seen during his time with Saints and were prepared to draft him at 11 if Latimore went to buffalo at 10. If you have that kind of convection on a QB then you trade up and grab him. They didnt because they were focused on Lattimore as help for Brees. They should have been willing to think further ahead but the commitment to Brees set this franchise back.

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4 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

Watson went right after our pick at 12 (we were 11) and Chiefs traded up right before us at 10 with buffalo for Mahomes. Payton would say latter in that Mahomes was the highest graded QB hes seen during his time with Saints and were prepared to draft him at 11 if Latimore went to buffalo at 10. If you have that kind of convection on a QB then you trade up and grab him. They didnt because they were focused on Lattimore as help for Brees. They should have been willing to think further ahead but the commitment to Brees set this franchise back.

I mean it's not like Lattimore was a bad pick and i would argue that it just changes the focus of the team.  Instead of being focused on being led by a dominant offense/QB the Lattimore pick really helped in solidifying a gaping hole that had been in our defense for years.  If we can just get the defense to consistently play at the level that they did when Bridgewater was at QB then it doesn't matter that we didn't get Watson, Mahomes, or Jackson.

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7 minutes ago, Raves said:

I mean it's not like Lattimore was a bad pick and i would argue that it just changes the focus of the team.  Instead of being focused on being led by a dominant offense/QB the Lattimore pick really helped in solidifying a gaping hole that had been in our defense for years.  If we can just get the defense to consistently play at the level that they did when Bridgewater was at QB then it doesn't matter that we didn't get Watson, Mahomes, or Jackson.

This is true, however it is what it is... say the Saints hold true to their conviction of the grade on Mahomes, trade up from 11 to top 9 and land Mahomes, then fill corner with a later selection or free agency. Where is this franchise now?

 

Remember... the Bill traded with Chiefs back to 27 and took Tre White of LSU who I will argue is a better NFL Cornerback than Lattimore. Maybe not a better athlete but a better football player.

 

Hell even Watson at 11 and trade back up into 1st for White, yes hindsight is 20/20 but you never bypass franchise QB’s like that!!! The only reason they did was because they (as a franchise) are simply afraid to move off Brees. There afraid of the fan reaction and there afraid of post-Brees life.

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1 minute ago, whodatworm23 said:

This is true, however it is what it is... say the Saints hold true to their conviction of the grade on Mahomes, trade up from 11 to top 9 and land Mahomes, then fill corner with a later selection or free agency. Where is this franchise now?

 

Remember... the Bill traded with Chiefs back to 27 and took Tre White of LSU who I will argue is a better NFL Cornerback than Lattimore. Maybe not a better athlete but a better football player.

 

Hell even Watson at 11 and trade back up into 1st for White, yes hindsight is 20/20 but you never bypass franchise QB’s like that!!! The only reason they did was because they (as a franchise) are simply afraid to move off Brees. There afraid of the fan reaction and there afraid of post-Brees life.

Maybe they had Lattimore graded higher than Mahomes or Watson, even if Mahomes was the highest rated QB that Payton has seen.

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2 minutes ago, Raves said:

Maybe they had Lattimore graded higher than Mahomes or Watson, even if Mahomes was the highest rated QB that Payton has seen.

Come on Raves, you know how this works... two prospects graded similar to each other but ones a QB. You always go QB and the only reason you don’t is because your still committed to your current one and that’s my point. The Saints were committed to a 38-39 year old QB with a dying arm because they were to afraid to move off him. 

 

It in the past I get it, I do like Lattimore and that draft class was special but it dosen't mean imma overlook the fact that they passed on two special young quarterbacks and STILL refuse to address the situation after 3 pitiful performances in the playoffs at 41 years old. We have to hear them talk up Taysom Hill as a QB to turn attention away from what’s really going on. 

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37 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

Come on Raves, you know how this works... two prospects graded similar to each other but ones a QB. You always go QB and the only reason you don’t is because your still committed to your current one and that’s my point. The Saints were committed to a 38-39 year old QB with a dying arm because they were to afraid to move off him. 

 

It in the past I get it, I do like Lattimore and that draft class was special but it dosen't mean imma overlook the fact that they passed on two special young quarterbacks and STILL refuse to address the situation after 3 pitiful performances in the playoffs at 41 years old. We have to hear them talk up Taysom Hill as a QB to turn attention away from what’s really going on. 

Prior to the 2017 NFL draft Brees was just coming off of a 5208 yards, 37 TD, 15 INT, 70% comp season... the "need" of a QB wasn't there so drafting Lattimore made more sense.

The more realistic time to draft a QB was in the 2018 draft, we took Davenport after trading up rather than Jackson who we both agreed we thought the trade-up was for, and Brees had just finished a 4334 yards, 28 TD, 3 INT, 72.8% comp season where it was obvious down the stretch his arm just didn't have anything left.

So yes Lattimore was the right pick at the time based on the information given, but the Davenport pick was in the incorrect one with the information given and it should've been Jackson instead.

The only possible explanation that would've accounted for it otherwise is that Payton really is arrogant enough to think Hill is the future at QB for the Saints.  If he's not that arrogant I wouldn't be surprised to still see a QB draft, or if the Redskins decide to go after Tua, maybe a trade for Haskins, especially if for a cost similar to what Miami paid for Rosen, who has all the tools and just needs time to develop and doing so under Brees/Payton would be an ideal situation for him.

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I totally disagree with Lattimore being the right pick, assuming Mahomes really was the best QB prospect Payton had seen in the last 13 years 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 2/29/2020 at 3:53 PM, navysaintsfan said:

I am over Drew. I've been over Drew. Love him, glad he's been a part of the organization

To be completely honest, the last couple years have tarnished him a little for me.

His participation in advocare is a MLM looking to take advantage of people who just don’t understand what they’re getting into.... and dont get me started on his support of Focus on the Family, cause I don’t think I can even talk about it here

bad taste in my mouth,  big time 

Edited by Dome

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On 3/1/2020 at 1:23 PM, Raves said:

Prior to the 2017 NFL draft Brees was just coming off of a 5208 yards, 37 TD, 15 INT, 70% comp season... the "need" of a QB wasn't there so drafting Lattimore made more sense.

The more realistic time to draft a QB was in the 2018 draft, we took Davenport after trading up rather than Jackson who we both agreed we thought the trade-up was for, and Brees had just finished a 4334 yards, 28 TD, 3 INT, 72.8% comp season where it was obvious down the stretch his arm just didn't have anything left.

So yes Lattimore was the right pick at the time based on the information given, but the Davenport pick was in the incorrect one with the information given and it should've been Jackson instead.

The only possible explanation that would've accounted for it otherwise is that Payton really is arrogant enough to think Hill is the future at QB for the Saints.  If he's not that arrogant I wouldn't be surprised to still see a QB draft, or if the Redskins decide to go after Tua, maybe a trade for Haskins, especially if for a cost similar to what Miami paid for Rosen, who has all the tools and just needs time to develop and doing so under Brees/Payton would be an ideal situation for him.

We agree on some things but disagree on others... I only say Lattimore was the wrong pick at the time because of what Payton said publicly about their grade on Mahomes, even Bubba Watson (Golf Player, Payton buddy) who was in the war room at the time came out saying they thought we were gonna pick Mahomes. My thing is if you have that kind of conviction on a QB and your that close, you go get him. I believe the reason they didn’t was because Lattimore was falling and once Cincinnati took Ross over Lattimore the Saints got lazy and said well “ if Buffalo takes Lattimore we get Mahomes” and if someone trades up we get Lattimore. The Chiefs trade up specifically to get ahead of the Saints at 11 so behind the scenes teams must have caught wind of just how much Payton liked Mahomes. 

 

Im not a Monday morning QB... I’ll admit that my fav QB in that draft was Deshaun Watson so the fact that he was sill on the board was killing me especially to see him go right after our pick at 12. So the Saints took Lattimore (who’s a great corner when he’s right) sandwiched in-between two all pro young quarterbacks in Mahomes and Watson when their own guy was 39 years old.

 

The Davenport trade... Look, I was convinced that the Saints would NOT take Lamar. I just told myself that if they wouldn’t take Watson they not gonna take Lamar, they gonna run it back like they did with the Lattimore pick and try to add another piece for Brees to chase another ring. This front office and ownership is to stubborn to move off of Brees. I actually thought they were targeting Tremaine Edmunds or Derwin James at the time and was shocked by the Davenport pick. Still the more I looked into Davenport he made sense and really fit the Saints tendencies of what they target in the first round. Then the cost of the trade came out and I was done... that’s QB prices, pick should have been Lamar! 

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17 hours ago, Dome said:

To be completely honest, the last couple years have tarnished him a little for me.

His participation in advocare is a MLM looking to take advantage of people who just don’t understand what they’re getting into.... and dont get me started on his support of Focus on the Family, cause I don’t think I can even talk about it here

bad taste in my mouth,  big time 

I’ve heard this from many people over the last few years... he’s def not revered the way he once was. 

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HIndsight is always 20/20. 
Could have had Mahomes or Watson - But we had Brees, so we get Lattimore. (Just think how foolish Chicago feels right now (Tribusky at #2))
We absolutely stole Kamara in the 3rd!
And literally every team could have had George Kittle in the 5th... so there's that
We could have had Jackson in 2018, but we spent our wad on Davenport who can't play a full season. But then again, even Baltimore passed on Jackson before they picked him.... so there's that, too.

We could go on & on, but the point is we hit & miss, just like any team does. And I fully agree, Brees has held us back. BUT, if we were chasing a QB, would be have scored a Kamara, a Lattimore, a McCoy, a Davenport etc... I mean, 2017 was a killer draft for us, regardless of 1 player that we speculate about. And yes, I wish Drew would have retired. I'll say that unless he pulls an Elway.

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Taysom Hill - What's he worth?
First off, anything we get for him (if he leaves) is a bonus. We picked him off waivers, and we've gotten great use out of him at a bargain price.

He's a QB - $7.2mil average salary
He's a TE - $2.1mil average salary
He's a FB - $1.4mil average salary
He's a WR - $2.6mil average salary
He's a special teams ace - $1.6 average salary

So as a gadget player, he fills a lot of roles. If he's our future QB, we should be happy with anything under $7mil, right? Average that out over the last 3 seasons with him at $555,000 average and we're sitting at about $2,150,000 for 4 years. That's a bargain, even for a backup. 

Moving forward with Hill, can he even pass? We've seen him in preseason, but really nothing in the regular. And a physical playing style basically limits your years of play (see Cam Newton) and he's already 30. So is he a gadget/stop gap until we get a future franchise guy?

What really sucks is this draft is light on QBs, or at least QBs that would fall to our position, and the worst place for a QB needy team to be is in the mid to late round, like we are. The reason I say we're QB needy is Brees is going to retire soon, and it would be great to have a rookie that could learn under Brees for a season, similar to what we saw with Favre/Rogers, or even Mahomes/Reid, and Hill is not that guy.

Who knows, maybe there's a Russel Wilson or Tony Romo waiting out there somewhere.... but for the near future, we're kinda screwed.

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Just now, Mid Iowa said:

Taysom Hill - What's he worth?
First off, anything we get for him (if he leaves) is a bonus. We picked him off waivers, and we've gotten great use out of him at a bargain price.

He's a QB - $7.2mil average salary
He's a TE - $2.1mil average salary
He's a FB - $1.4mil average salary
He's a WR - $2.6mil average salary
He's a special teams ace - $1.6 average salary

So as a gadget player, he fills a lot of roles. If he's our future QB, we should be happy with anything under $7mil, right? Average that out over the last 3 seasons with him at $555,000 average and we're sitting at about $2,150,000 for 4 years. That's a bargain, even for a backup. 

Moving forward with Hill, can he even pass? We've seen him in preseason, but really nothing in the regular. And a physical playing style basically limits your years of play (see Cam Newton) and he's already 30. So is he a gadget/stop gap until we get a future franchise guy?

What really sucks is this draft is light on QBs, or at least QBs that would fall to our position, and the worst place for a QB needy team to be is in the mid to late round, like we are. The reason I say we're QB needy is Brees is going to retire soon, and it would be great to have a rookie that could learn under Brees for a season, similar to what we saw with Favre/Rogers, or even Mahomes/Reid, and Hill is not that guy.

Who knows, maybe there's a Russel Wilson or Tony Romo waiting out there somewhere.... but for the near future, we're kinda screwed.

Depending on what Washington does, there might be a Rosen type scenario where the Redskins are willing to let go of Haskins for cheap to make sure there is no confusion of who is "their guy."  Haskins has all the tools to be a top NFL QB, just needs experience and development, something that he would get a lot of from Brees and Payton.

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Posted (edited)

I don’t see Taysom signing long term deal for less than 10m

 

we could get him cheaper while Brees is here, maybe a year after... but when Brees is gone he’s gonna want at high end backup/replacement starter money assuming he doesn’t crap the bed and keeps improving 

Edited by Dome

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