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Offseason Contract Restructures: Joyner


jimkelly02

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46 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I think they cut candidate thing was misinformation from Spotrac.  I even sent a few Twitter DMs to the owner and writers of Spotrac and they never got back to be because, I believe, didn’t have the answer/info. They listed his dead cap after year 1 at zero when in reality his ‘20 roster bonus was already guaranteed.  That $8m roster bonus kept him from a serious cut candidate.  

I wonder what we are freeing up cap for?  We have enough before this to not need to create dead money for next year.  They must have a couple splash players in their sights.

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3 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I wonder what we are freeing up cap for?  We have enough before this to not need to create dead money for next year.  They must have a couple splash players in their sights.

More than a couple. Jones (Both of em), Harris, Simmons, Littleton, Schoebert and more could be potential splash guys... 

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7 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I wonder what we are freeing up cap for?  We have enough before this to not need to create dead money for next year.  They must have a couple splash players in their sights.

I keep saying this and everyone says I’m wrong but we really don’t have THAT much cap.  When u factor in the draft class, and assuming a $199m cap as reported (roll over included) we have $44.139m.  We have to save go into the season with $3M+ Incase of injuries and having to sign other players.  It’s more likely to be $5-7M so we can make a mid season trade if needed.  That leaves us with 37-39M.

That can go very very fast though.

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4 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I keep saying this and everyone says I’m wrong but we really don’t have THAT much cap.  When u factor in the draft class, and assuming a $199m cap as reported (roll over included) we have $44.139m.  We have to save go into the season with $3M+ Incase of injuries and having to sign other players.  It’s more likely to be $5-7M so we can make a mid season trade if needed.  That leaves us with 37-39M.

That can go very very fast though.

I believe it is a little more than that but you also have to take into account that we have a few easy to get out of contracts that could bump us up into top 5 cap space without hurting the team.  1 of the cuts might make us better.  Also our own FAs this year and next the only players I think that hurt us if they leave are Joseph, Worley, and Hankins.  We have room in 2021 with most of our top guys (18 or so starters out of 27 contracts) in team friendly contracts.  We also have a ton of youth  that is growing together.  I do not see us having cap issues and having to make tough choices for another 3 years if we draft smart.  We should be able to back load a big contract or 2 and be fine.  If we are lucky and hit on a starting caliber QB in the draft it should be smooth sailing as far as the cap for 4-5 years.

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1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

I believe it is a little more than that but you also have to take into account that we have a few easy to get out of contracts that could bump us up into top 5 cap space without hurting the team.  1 of the cuts might make us better.  Also our own FAs this year and next the only players I think that hurt us if they leave are Joseph, Worley, and Hankins.  We have room in 2021 with most of our top guys (18 or so starters out of 27 contracts) in team friendly contracts.  We also have a ton of youth  that is growing together.  I do not see us having cap issues and having to make tough choices for another 3 years if we draft smart.  We should be able to back load a big contract or 2 and be fine.  If we are lucky and hit on a starting caliber QB in the draft it should be smooth sailing as far as the cap for 4-5 years.

I think I didn’t explain myself right.  We’re in great cap space just like you said.  He have very few UFA’s in ‘21 and ‘22 and will have cap space to resign our guys and add some good players every year, and even extend some guys early and push some money into the last year of the rookie deal so the extension years have a lower cap hit.  

What I’m trying to tell people is we’re not going out there and getting, as an example:

Littleton@16m, Byron Jones@15m, Emmanuel Sanders@11m, and Brady@30-35M.  And resigning some of our guys.

We’re going to get some big name FA’s.  Prolly 2 top tier guys and 2 middle tier guys,  plus resign some of our own.

We can make moves but that money goes fast.  I just think I’ve heard the majority of people on this site and others have expectations that aren’t possible to meet.

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I really like the fact that since Reggie we've been quiet in the first round scramble of free agency where a lot of big ticket guys don't live up to the contracts and hype.

Joyner restructure could be simply that he hasn't lived up to his contract but it could be to help make room for one big ticket guy. 

I can see us trying to make a splash to arrive in a new city with a guy like Chris Jones but hopefully we'll go after value guys again and fill holes. I expect a number if low key LBs a couple DBs, maybe a RB to spell Jacobs and a couple vet receivers. We may look for a vet swing tackle too.

Hopefully we go after our future marquee guys in the draft. 

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11 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

I’m not sure if you mean is it cheaper to cut him this offseason or next.

Joyner had a $8m guaranteed roster bonus originally. His base salary was only 4.6m and wasn’t guaranteed.  We weren’t about to cut him and play him $8m to save the $4.6m salary and .35m work our bonus.

The restructure doesn’t make it harder to cut him ever.  He was never going to get cut This year.  The restructure leaves a small dead cap 2.5m in year 3 and 1.25m in year 4.  So he’s easily cut after year 2 but there would be a small dead cap hit.

I thought by reducing his cap hit this year it makes him cheaper to be cut and given his play more likely? 

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8 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

I think I didn’t explain myself right.  We’re in great cap space just like you said.  He have very few UFA’s in ‘21 and ‘22 and will have cap space to resign our guys and add some good players every year, and even extend some guys early and push some money into the last year of the rookie deal so the extension years have a lower cap hit.  

What I’m trying to tell people is we’re not going out there and getting, as an example:

Littleton@16m, Byron Jones@15m, Emmanuel Sanders@11m, and Brady@30-35M.  And resigning some of our guys.

We’re going to get some big name FA’s.  Prolly 2 top tier guys and 2 middle tier guys,  plus resign some of our own.

We can make moves but that money goes fast.  I just think I’ve heard the majority of people on this site and others have expectations that aren’t possible to meet.

I agree and if we get 2 splash FAs we are very limited after that but getting 2 big FAs without losing talent is exactly what we need.  We might be adding 5 potential starters from the draft so our turnover is already high.  In the long run this can be good but next year we will struggle as we learn to play like a team again.  I can not wait for us to have boring off seasons because it means we have very few areas on the team that we can upgrade.

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5 hours ago, Dessie said:

I thought by reducing his cap hit this year it makes him cheaper to be cut and given his play more likely? 

No, we just took 5M of his 8m roster bonus and turned it to signing bonus so that 5m gets spread out over all 4 years of the deal.  Since we’re still in year 1 of the deal, new year hasn’t started, it goes over all 4 years.

it wasn’t a pay cut, just a simple movement of some money from one type of bonus to another to free up a few million.

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7 hours ago, Darbsk said:

I really like the fact that since Reggie we've been quiet in the first round scramble of free agency where a lot of big ticket guys don't live up to the contracts and hype.

Joyner restructure could be simply that he hasn't lived up to his contract but it could be to help make room for one big ticket guy. 

I can see us trying to make a splash to arrive in a new city with a guy like Chris Jones but hopefully we'll go after value guys again and fill holes. I expect a number if low key LBs a couple DBs, maybe a RB to spell Jacobs and a couple vet receivers. We may look for a vet swing tackle too.

Hopefully we go after our future marquee guys in the draft. 

I think ‘21 and ‘22 will be boring off seasons as there’s only Whitehead/Hankins/Harris/Good and then incognito/Richard/hAll/hurst/key/Parker as FAs.

we should have cap room to resign or replace with better players, as well as, add one some guys.

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1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

No, we just took 5M of his 8m roster bonus and turned it to signing bonus so that 5m gets spread out over all 4 years of the deal.  Since we’re still in year 1 of the deal, new year hasn’t started, it goes over all 4 years.

it wasn’t a pay cut, just a simple movement of some money from one type of bonus to another to free up a few million.

I’m not saying he’s taken a pay cut, I’m saying the cap hit if we were to cut him has reduced this year and been spread over his contract. You’ve already said that there was no dead money after his 2nd year originally.

 

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2 hours ago, Dessie said:

I’m not saying he’s taken a pay cut, I’m saying the cap hit if we were to cut him has reduced this year and been spread over his contract. You’ve already said that there was no dead money after his 2nd year originally.

 

There is now more dead money in years 2-4.

originally..... 

we could cut him in ‘20 and have a dead cap of 8m (guaranteed RB) but save his (4.6m) base salary and WorkOut Bonus (.35m)

there was no dead cap in ‘21 or ‘22 if we cut him

after restructure....

We’d essentially have to trade/cut him prior to 3/20/20 when the roster bonus pays out.  On 3/22/20 his base salary guarantees so the team trading for him would be acquiring a guaranteed 4.6m salary,  guaranteed 3.0m roster bonus, and a workout bonus of .35m.  We’d have 3.75m from the remaining SB in deal cap but save 4.2m. The problem is I don’t see a team wanting to take on Joyner for 7.6m guaranteed/cap of 7.95m

i realize OTC says it’s 5.45m savings but their system isn’t correct after the restructure.

there’s a deal cap of 2.5m in ‘21 and 1.25m in ‘22 if we cut him

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