The 2020 NFL Combine Thread

[soulman]

How 'bout this for an idea.  Let's not sink another $25 mil gtd into two more TEs who won't produce for us either.

We're still stuck with Burton for now hoping somehow he makes a comeback and I would be very skeptical about spending another $30-$40 mil on another TE problem child or even drafting one before the middle rounds unless the kid was a certified blue chip can't miss prospect and they don't usually last until even round two.

How 'bout another Martellus Bennett type without the Black Unicorn persona we can sign for a year or two 'til we can get a shot at a blue chipper or maybe we get lucky with a mid round pick like KC did with Kelce although our typical success drafting TEs hasn't been that good. We had an All Pro in Olsen then stupidly trade him away.

I just don't see us spending another $8-$10 mil a year on another TE while we still have Burton on the books and quite possibly end up with another average kind of guy or another with ongoing injury issues.  Isn't there a 30 something former Pro Bowler out there looking for one last hurrah we could get for half that or less?

[topwop1]

3 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Burton is a sunk cost. He should not factor in.

I hope the Bears fix their biggest weakness with the best possible solution.

The best possible solution for the Bears is not one of panic / desperation that will set the market by making Hooper the highest paid TE ever when he is not worthy of that...IMO 

[topwop1]

8 minutes ago, soulman said:

How 'bout this for an idea.  Let's not sink another $25 mil gtd into two more TEs who won't produce for us either.

We're still stuck with Burton for now hoping somehow he makes a comeback and I would be very skeptical about spending another $30-$40 mil on another TE problem child or even drafting one before the middle rounds unless the kid was a certified blue chip can't miss prospect and they don't usually last until even round two.

How 'bout another Martellus Bennett type without the Black Unicorn persona we can sign for a year or two 'til we can get a shot at a blue chipper or maybe we get lucky with a mid round pick like KC did with Kelce although our typical success drafting TEs hasn't been that good. We had an All Pro in Olsen then stupidly trade him away.

I just don't see us spending another $8-$10 mil a year on another TE while we still have Burton on the books and quite possibly end up with another average kind of guy or another with ongoing injury issues.  Isn't there a 30 something former Pro Bowler out there looking for one last hurrah we could get for half that or less?

I like this idea. That's why I am cool with a guy like Ebron...or I'm even cool if they draft another TE with one of their second.  Screw paying $10M or more per year for multiple years for a new TE that isn't even in the top 5 at his position. 

[AZBearsFan]

3 hours ago, topwop1 said:

I like this idea. That's why I am cool with a guy like Ebron...or I'm even cool if they draft another TE with one of their second.  Screw paying $10M or more per year for multiple years for a new TE that isn't even in the top 5 at his position. 

I’d pay that money for Henry. His ability is top 5 or at least right on the fringe of that. If Burton will be 100% by TC as Pace alluded to today my thinking is we probably go with he, Harris and a high upside draft pick with last year’s guys competing for #4. If we get fully healthy Burton going into TC I’m fine with that. We can’t know that’ll be the case beyond speculation at this point, but Pace should and it’ll play a big role in what transpires at TE. 

[soulman]

2 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I’d pay that money for Henry. His ability is top 5 or at least right on the fringe of that. If Burton will be 100% by TC as Pace alluded to today my thinking is we probably go with he, Harris and a high upside draft pick with last year’s guys competing for #4. If we get fully healthy Burton going into TC I’m fine with that. We can’t know that’ll be the case beyond speculation at this point, but Pace should and it’ll play a big role in what transpires at TE. 

One really major issue I have with Burton is not whether he's 100% by camp but whether or not he's motivated to play or will continue to be "injured" more often than he's healthy.  Until I see different I question his commitment to playing with even little hurts.  Something just doesn't seem right with him and hasn't ever since he blew off that playoff game.  What don't we know?

Here's a hypothetical.  If we can only spend big on one FA this year should it be on an OG like Thuney or a TE like Henry?

My concern with Henry is like Burton he's been MIA just about as often.  He's missed the entire 2018 season with a torn ACL and four games in 2019 with a fractured knee cap and Spotrac pegs his MV at around $9 mil AAV on a 4 year deal.  How much of that deal would need to be guaranteed money?  Seems like a big risk for a guy whose already had two serious leg injuries.

Now consider Thuney whose never missed a game and has enough versatility to kick out to OT as well.  He's  solid pass blocker and has been schooled in the precision of the Pats offense by one of the best OL coaches in the NFL.  As important as TE is to this offense we've already spent big on one TE who not producing due to injuries.  Do we want to spend big on another with an injury history?

To be honest with you for the same kind of money I'd rather bet on a guy like Thuney solving my issue at RG and lock that spot down then if we absolutely need another vet TE find another guy we can sign to a one or two year deal for half what Henry will ask for or less, spend a mid round pick on another, and see what Barone can do with some of those we have on the roster now.

In another year we have our 1st round pick back and we can dump Burton if he doesn't produce.  Then we'd have a far better shot at a blue chip TE prospect if we still need one.  If Henry didn't have the injury history he has and if we could dump Burton now I'd be fine with signing a top dollar TE but that's not the case and having even more big cap $$$ tied up on injured TEs doesn't appeal to me.

[AZBearsFan]

10 hours ago, soulman said:

One really major issue I have with Burton is not whether he's 100% by camp but whether or not he's motivated to play or will continue to be "injured" more often than he's healthy.  Until I see different I question his commitment to playing with even little hurts.  Something just doesn't seem right with him and hasn't ever since he blew off that playoff game.  What don't we know?

Here's a hypothetical.  If we can only spend big on one FA this year should it be on an OG like Thuney or a TE like Henry?

My concern with Henry is like Burton he's been MIA just about as often.  He's missed the entire 2018 season with a torn ACL and four games in 2019 with a fractured knee cap and Spotrac pegs his MV at around $9 mil AAV on a 4 year deal.  How much of that deal would need to be guaranteed money?  Seems like a big risk for a guy whose already had two serious leg injuries.

Now consider Thuney whose never missed a game and has enough versatility to kick out to OT as well.  He's  solid pass blocker and has been schooled in the precision of the Pats offense by one of the best OL coaches in the NFL.  As important as TE is to this offense we've already spent big on one TE who not producing due to injuries.  Do we want to spend big on another with an injury history?

To be honest with you for the same kind of money I'd rather bet on a guy like Thuney solving my issue at RG and lock that spot down then if we absolutely need another vet TE find another guy we can sign to a one or two year deal for half what Henry will ask for or less, spend a mid round pick on another, and see what Barone can do with some of those we have on the roster now.

In another year we have our 1st round pick back and we can dump Burton if he doesn't produce.  Then we'd have a far better shot at a blue chip TE prospect if we still need one.  If Henry didn't have the injury history he has and if we could dump Burton now I'd be fine with signing a top dollar TE but that's not the case and having even more big cap $$$ tied up on injured TEs doesn't appeal to me.

I don’t have the same desire concerns with Henry as Burton at all. Henry also fought to back to be active for the postseason after tearing his ACL in May, and a fractured kneecap for a guy who’s getting hit on the kneecap regularly is a big deal - 4 games is less than I would expect. Durability is the ONLY concern with Henry IMO, and I’m less concerned about it than most. Finding a TE with his skill set and production is much harder than finding a competent to good OG. 

[WindyCity]

A groin and then a hip surgery on the same leg.

That is what we call a chronic issue.

[soulman]

31 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

I don’t have the same desire concerns with Henry as Burton at all. Henry also fought to back to be active for the postseason after tearing his ACL in May, and a fractured kneecap for a guy who’s getting hit on the kneecap regularly is a big deal - 4 games is less than I would expect. Durability is the ONLY concern with Henry IMO, and I’m less concerned about it than most. Finding a TE with his skill set and production is much harder than finding a competent to good OG. 

It's not Henry's desire that's in question.  Just like Burton it's his availability. He's likely to be asking for a big chuck of change in gtd $$$ and for a guy with his injury history that would be one more risk we've taken at TE.  We sign players and draft them high but they don't play and they don't produce.  If we're gonna get a top TE I would rather we wait and draft a top one not just the best of the second tier guys.

The other issue is we have some TEs now including one we're stuck with no matter what.  What we don't have is a solid prospect for RG on the roster we know can step in and hold his spot.  There will likely be a few more other than just Thuney but what attracts me to him is his availability and his versatility.  After suffering through Kyle Long's season ending injuries for so long some stability at RG would be nice.

[topwop1]

6 minutes ago, soulman said:

It's not Henry's desire that's in question.  Just like Burton it's his availability. He's likely to be asking for a big chuck of change in gtd $$$ and for a guy with his injury history that would be one more risk we've taken at TE.  We sign players and draft them high but they don't play and they don't produce.  If we're gonna get a top TE I would rather we wait and draft a top one not just the best of the second tier guys.

The other issue is we have some TEs now including one we're stuck with no matter what.  What we don't have is a solid prospect for RG on the roster we know can step in and hold his spot.  There will likely be a few more other than just Thuney but what attracts me to him is his availability and his versatility.  After suffering through Kyle Long's season ending injuries for so long some stability at RG would be nice.

I'm with you soulman.  Give me a plug and play RG who will be able to handle the nuances of an NFL offense form the get go.

We need solid protection and better run game blocking.  O-line play was a huge issue last year, I'd say more so than even the TE position, which was partially due to Burton's unavailability and not his capability.

[AZBearsFan]

25 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

I'm with you soulman.  Give me a plug and play RG who will be able to handle the nuances of an NFL offense form the get go.

We need solid protection and better run game blocking.  O-line play was a huge issue last year, I'd say more so than even the TE position, which was partially due to Burton's unavailability and not his capability.

But... you can probably have both for 2020. Just because you don’t get a $10M OG doesn’t mean you can’t get a fully capable starter there for significantly less. That probably means a 1-3 year player like Mike Iupati (who played for $2.75M in 2019 on a 1-year deal) or someone like that instead of a 5-year player like Thuney. 5/$50M for Henry or Hooper in FA likely only has a 2020 cap number of like $6.5M. 

[topwop1]

9 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

But... you can probably have both for 2020. Just because you don’t get a $10M OG doesn’t mean you can’t get a fully capable starter there for significantly less. That probably means a 1-3 year player like Mike Iupati (who played for $2.75M in 2019 on a 1-year deal) or someone like that instead of a 5-year player like Thuney. 5/$50M for Henry or Hooper in FA likely only has a 2020 cap number of like $6.5M. 

I suppose they can make it work if they really want to...I'm just trying to play it smart on how I'd potentially spend the money if I were GM.  I've said it earlier already, the idea of committing 5/$50M to a guy like Hooper or Henry is not very appealing to me no matter how much of an upgrade we could use at TE.

I believe there is better value out there and that you can spread that amount between more FA acquisitions that would better serve the overall team.

 

[WindyCity]

15 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I’d pay that money for Henry. His ability is top 5 or at least right on the fringe of that. If Burton will be 100% by TC as Pace alluded to today my thinking is we probably go with he, Harris and a high upside draft pick with last year’s guys competing for #4. If we get fully healthy Burton going into TC I’m fine with that. We can’t know that’ll be the case beyond speculation at this point, but Pace should and it’ll play a big role in what transpires at TE. 

We heard the exact same thing about Burton last offseason.

This is 2 core muscle surgeries in back to back years with no sign of improvement between the 2.

Edited February 26, 2020 by WindyCity

[WindyCity]

2 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

I suppose they can make it work if they really want to...I'm just trying to play it smart on how I'd potentially spend the money if I were GM.  I've said it earlier already, the idea of committing 5/$50M to a guy like Hooper or Henry is not very appealing to me no matter how much of an upgrade we could use at TE.

I believe there is better value out there and that you can spread that amount between more FA acquisitions that would better serve the overall team.

 

Please elaborate. Where would smarter money be spent?

The problem with TE is that there are so few players out there that can handle the type of load we are going to require from the #1 TE. How many guys on the market can handle 100+ targets?

Hooper or Henry are worth 10 million/season to the Bears when you factor in need, supply, role, and what they bring to the table.

 

[topwop1]

1 minute ago, WindyCity said:

Please elaborate. Where would smarter money be spent?

The problem with TE is that there are so few players out there that can handle the type of load we are going to require from the #1 TE. How many guys on the market can handle 100+ targets?

Hooper or Henry are worth 10 million/season to the Bears when you factor in need, supply, role, and what they bring to the table.

 

Well for one you can probably expect them to spend at least $7-8M on a backup QB.

We also need a new RG, 1 or 2 ILB's (Trevathan, Kwit, Pierre-Louis), some DE depth and a SS opposite Jackson, in addition to TE.

[WindyCity]

38 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Well for one you can probably expect them to spend at least $7-8M on a backup QB.

We also need a new RG, 1 or 2 ILB's (Trevathan, Kwit, Pierre-Louis), some DE depth and a SS opposite Jackson, in addition to TE.

You are going to have a much easier time drafting a starting OG and SS then you will a TE. Pace's track record is pretty clear here.

Pace has been a trainwreck at the TE position. I do not want him scouting for value. Sign the best one and move on to positions you are not a complete waste at.